What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Supersnow845]

That's the overall arc. The story of EW itself was told entirely in 6.0, with the 6.x patches creating their own separate arc leading to DT. (Compare to previous expansions where the main story arc of an expansion took the entirety of its patch sequence to tell.)



I'd have to disagree. The very title of the thread itself is charged and tries to pass off a personal opinion as if it's magically some kind of fact. That's not how you generate productive discussion. And at various points throughout this thread's life, it's been nothing but a hate train demeaning the developers and then going after anyone who dares to say they enjoy it.

You can’t really just say that it’s the wider arc considering unlike say ShB which is 95% self contained EW makes zero sense without the entire arc that came before it

Sure it finished telling the entire story by 6.0 but the story needs the foundation of the other 4 expansions to properly work as a story so I still say saying EW’s story was told all in one shot is a bit disingenuous

[Renathras]

No, it is a serious question because to my understanding you were trying brush of criticism as "hate train", if i put it in a short term.

Okay, I'm just not going to bother anymore.

I can only say so many times "I literally did not say that AND literally continued the sentence to include people who don't hate the game critique it as well and that is fine". I'm not sure how much more clearly I can say it, but if people at this point still are going to lie about that and insist that's what I said against all evidence, my own clarifications, and pages of posts saying otherwise, there's no home in convincing you otherwise.

He is just going to keep whining about...

Okay, I'm just blocking you now. You literally read nothing I say, continue insisting I'm saying the same things I've debunked, there's no hope for reason there.

It NEEDS TO be those EXACT words? So implications mean nothing then? Should i be as condescending as you then?

Yup, we're done here.

Here's the problem: When you think someone is implying something and they say, outright, OVER A DOZEN TIMES that they were not, it's extremely rude to insist you know what they were saying better than they were.

THERE WAS NO FIRST INSULT. That's the issue. But if you are going to insist, after me saying over and over again that wasn't what I said, and knowing you can't find those exact words because I literally DID NOT SAY those exact words, then, once again, what's the point? If you're going to insist I was saying something I didn't say, even acknowledging that I didn't outright say it and you're basing your view on what you THINK I was implying, and will continue to force those words in my mouth even after I say every way to Sunday that I was NOT implying that, then what am I supposed to do?

If "I did not literally say that in the text" AND "I also didn't mean that in any way" are not sufficient, what WOULD BE?

"If I wrote 'Ren is a hater'" - EXCEPT I DID NOT WRITE anyone's <name> is a hater, now did I? AT ALL. There was no first post "full of attacks". Even in your initial deep dive into the post, you saw ONE sentence that you took THE FIRST PART OF and decided that was a "rant". You have the literal quote. You can't keep insisting something was said that was not said. But there's no way for me to convince you otherwise, so we're done here. Or at least I'm done with this BS.

.

This is why I say all the time people don't care about the truth, they're just looking for excuses to attack.

[Eisi]

This thread's plotline is more interesting than Endwalker's!

[Nebelheim]

Okay, I'm just not going to bother anymore.

I can only say so many times "I literally did not say that AND literally continued the sentence to include people who don't hate the game critique it as well and that is fine". I'm not sure how much more clearly I can say it, but if people at this point still are going to lie about that and insist that's what I said against all evidence, my own clarifications, and pages of posts saying otherwise, there's no home in convincing you otherwise.



Okay, I'm just blocking you now. You literally read nothing I say, continue insisting I'm saying the same things I've debunked, there's no hope for reason there.



Yup, we're done here.

Here's the problem: When you think someone is implying something and they say, outright, OVER A DOZEN TIMES that they were not, it's extremely rude to insist you know what they were saying better than they were.

THERE WAS NO FIRST INSULT. That's the issue. But if you are going to insist, after me saying over and over again that wasn't what I said, and knowing you can't find those exact words because I literally DID NOT SAY those exact words, then, once again, what's the point? If you're going to insist I was saying something I didn't say, even acknowledging that I didn't outright say it and you're basing your view on what you THINK I was implying, and will continue to force those words in my mouth even after I say every way to Sunday that I was NOT implying that, then what am I supposed to do?

If "I did not literally say that in the text" AND "I also didn't mean that in any way" are not sufficient, what WOULD BE?

"If I wrote 'Ren is a hater'" - EXCEPT I DID NOT WRITE anyone's <name> is a hater, now did I? AT ALL. There was no first post "full of attacks". Even in your initial deep dive into the post, you saw ONE sentence that you took THE FIRST PART OF and decided that was a "rant". You have the literal quote. You can't keep insisting something was said that was not said. But there's no way for me to convince you otherwise, so we're done here. Or at least I'm done with this BS.

.

This is why I say all the time people don't care about the truth, they're just looking for excuses to attack.

Your the one who jumped in and put words in peoples mouth and attacked people and now deflecting and claiming everyone is being negative and attacking you. Maybe you should get off the forums and take a break if everything comes across as an attack. I don't know what is going on in your real life but you should take a break and do some self reflecting or some therapy to talk out some personal issues you seem to have with every person you interact with on the internet. Your the one who started all this with your rant a few pages ago and indirectly calling people names and claiming people were bad faith arguing. You seem to always have personal issues with everyone you ever interact with on the forums. At this point im surprised anyone tries to interact/debate with you because you always feel attacked and put words in peoples mouth when no one ever attacks you. At this point I should be the one who should block you considering it's not the first time I was falsely accused of attacking you along with multiple others you accuse of attacking you when your generally the one who starts these "attacks".

[Nayukhuut]

As pertains to the story, I think at this point going forward I am just going to go off the assumption that we have been Tempered by Venat. It is the only thing that makes sense at this point. If we were Tempered to believe in her cause, then the double standard we apply to her makes sense, and it makes sense why we continue to fight for people (like we should) while ignoring the horrors she caused.

[Aniya_Estlihn]

As pertains to the story, I think at this point going forward I am just going to go off the assumption that we have been Tempered by Venat. It is the only thing that makes sense at this point. If we were Tempered to believe in her cause, then the double standard we apply to her makes sense, and it makes sense why we continue to fight for people (like we should) while ignoring the horrors she caused.

We were not and that is not canon, if you think it is, you didn't pay attention to 5.2 or 5.3 where we are told outright that the blessing of light is bestowed upon those who awaken to the echo specifically to prevent tempering, period. Furthermore, as Hydaelyn was created by she and a faction of people who were fearful of the tempering effects of Zodiark, the likelihood of her having done so is slim to none.

[Nayukhuut]

We were not and that is not canon, if you think it is, you didn't pay attention to 5.2 or 5.3 where we are told outright that the blessing of light is bestowed upon those who awaken to the echo specifically to prevent tempering, period. Furthermore, as Hydaelyn was created by she and a faction of people who were fearful of the tempering effects of Zodiark, the likelihood of her having done so is slim to none.

I paid plenty of attention, which is why I am just trying to come up with ways that make the way we treat Venat's horrors make sense. Otherwise the story not calling out Venat for the sheer oceans of blood on her hands is the height of hypocrisy from us. Canon or not, it is about the only way I can get through the story without wondering why we prop up a genocidal murderer as a hero while rightfully calling out people who committed similar atrocities. The Tempered never think they are Tempered after all. Of course we would consider it just a blessing. :P

I suppose I could always just pretend my character is secretly just playing along with the Venat narrative, and has decided to make it their life goal to make sure no one ever comes along and does what she did ever again.

[Supersnow845]

^ I mean if anything the 6.0 MSQ vindicated venat even if she is still highly flawed

The source is the only planet in the universe that still has life left on it and zodiarks barrier was failing, the ancients had zero alternatives, if Meteion had never been created then the ancients would have fallen to the same end as the last world in the dead ends, on the world where venat made her decision after zodiark had been created and still failed to stop the final days to the aether rich ancients there was zero alternative, Meteion was going to wipe the source of all life

Venat is responsible for billions of deaths but is also the sole reason why there is even still life in the universe

[Halivel]

I paid plenty of attention, which is why I am just trying to come up with ways that make the way we treat Venat's horrors make sense. Otherwise the story not calling out Venat for the sheer oceans of blood on her hands is the height of hypocrisy from us. Canon or not, it is about the only way I can get through the story without wondering why we prop up a genocidal murderer as a hero while rightfully calling out people who committed similar atrocities. The Tempered never think they are Tempered after all. Of course we would consider it just a blessing. :P

I suppose I could always just pretend my character is secretly just playing along with the Venat narrative, and has decided to make it their life goal to make sure no one ever comes along and does what she did ever again.

The game plays around the enire "what sacrifice is warranted and what isn't" theme several times, with most of these cases being presented as a food for thought with no definite answer provided (Venat included).
WoL themselves gets called out a single time near the end of Shadowbringers by Varis, after many many years of slaughtering for what we presume to be a good cause. So there's that.

Seeing WoL as tempered by Hydaelyn is one way to look at that I guess, so if that's the answer that works for you and your perception of the narrative - that's fine.

[Theodric]

We were not and that is not canon, if you think it is, you didn't pay attention to 5.2 or 5.3 where we are told outright that the blessing of light is bestowed upon those who awaken to the echo specifically to prevent tempering, period. Furthermore, as Hydaelyn was created by she and a faction of people who were fearful of the tempering effects of Zodiark, the likelihood of her having done so is slim to none.

Not quite. Putting aside that Venat was only using concern towards Zodiark as a convenient cover story to avoid actually sharing her true concerns as well as knowledge of exactly what was causing the Final Days...Tempering was never brought up in any capacity as their fear.

It was also established prior to Endwalker that Tempering was prevented by the Echo rather than the Blessing of Light. We also see that an artificial variant can prevent it as well as seen with the Resonant. It's only with Endwalker - and a couple of other retcons that came with it - that the protection from Tempering is attributed to the Blessing of Light.

Venat is responsible for billions of deaths but is also the sole reason why there is even still life in the universe

She isn't the sole reason for that, so much as passing off the victories of other characters and factions as either her own work or that of the Sundered. For example the only reason Etheirys continued to exist both before and after the Sundering is due to Zodiark rather than Hydaelyn - something made clearer in the other localisations. For some reason the English localisation has a habit of obscuring that through framing something positive in a neutral or negative light or simply leaving out key bits of context altogether, as seen here:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...s-unacceptable

There's a fair few interesting examples throughout that thread.