What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Absimiliard]

Slander is spoken. In print it's libel. (Joking... it's just a Spider-Man 2 reference...)

Let me just say this, and I mean it in all honesty and with all respect: it's not worth it. These same folk been complaining since 6.0 and will complain until 6.55 and probably beyond. If you liked it, that just has to be enough; ignore the hate, because it's not going to stop.

It might not feel right but in the long run ignoring it and letting it slide is the wiser course. It's not worth the time, effort, or frustration... and I know from experience dealing with the same crowd.

Dude, ya'll are in a thread that exists for people to criticize things they don't like about the story. How, exactly, does hate have anything to do with it? Being critical of a product indicates one cares about it, not that they hate it. People that have nothing but hate for the game would already be long gone. This pretending like there's some giant hate mob ravaging the forums thing isn't as convincing as ya'll think it is.

[Renathras]

Slander is spoken. In print it's libel. (Joking... it's just a Spider-Man 2 reference...)

Let me just say this, and I mean it in all honesty and with all respect: it's not worth it. These same folk been complaining since 6.0 and will complain until 6.55 and probably beyond. If you liked it, that just has to be enough; ignore the hate, because it's not going to stop.

It might not feel right but in the long run ignoring it and letting it slide is the wiser course. It's not worth the time, effort, or frustration... and I know from experience dealing with the same crowd.

Yeah, understand that. The reply to you kind of proves the point.

And fair enough, libel.

[Supersnow845]

Dude, ya'll are in a thread that exists for people to criticize things they don't like about the story. How, exactly, does hate have anything to do with it? Being critical of a product indicates one cares about it, not that they hate it. People that have nothing but hate for the game would already be long gone. This pretending like there's some giant hate mob ravaging the forums thing isn't as convincing as ya'll think it is.

Goes into a thread saying it’s purpose is to offer legit criticism

“Yo why y’all criticising in here y’all must be haters”

[Absimiliard]

*strokes beard* I would be very impressed if that were true given how difficult and demanding Seal training is. :P

Truly amongst the noblest of callings one can answer, and one of the most grueling besides. Of course, military service in general is about one of the highest callings you can answer.

One would certainly be remiss to speak ill of those who've truly served.

[Renathras]

“Yo why y’all criticising in here y’all must be haters”

Who said that, though?

EDIT:

there's still bad faith attempts to frame criticism of the story as 'hate'

Again: Who is saying that?

I'm not trying to be pedantic, but it seems a lot of people are saying people are saying this...but no one's actually saying it. It's kind of a strawman at this point.

[Theodric]

I think a lot of people would be rather surprised by who, exactly, is sitting behind the screen when it comes to individuals who choose to play MMO's. Though for obvious reasons - and especially given how volatile elements of this community repeatedly prove to be - a lot of us opt to keep silent on details regarding our private lives.

It's also very easy to claim to be pretty much anything under the veil of anonymity so anything revealed is going to be taken with a hefty pinch of salt in the first place. So any given statement may or may not be true but more importantly often it isn't really relevant to what's being discussed.

All that aside, I think Lunaxia has the right of it - after multiple pages of back and forth there's still bad faith attempts to frame criticism of the story as 'hate' and so the thread itself risks being entangled in a lengthy back and forth that ultimately doesn't amount to anything in the end.

[Nebelheim]

Who said that, though?

EDIT:



Again: Who is saying that?

I'm not trying to be pedantic, but it seems a lot of people are saying people are saying this...but no one's actually saying it. It's kind of a strawman at this point.

I wonder who has been saying those exact things the last few pages.

[aveyond-dreams]

Dude, ya'll are in a thread that exists for people to criticize things they don't like about the story. How, exactly, does hate have anything to do with it? Being critical of a product indicates one cares about it, not that they hate it. People that have nothing but hate for the game would already be long gone. This pretending like there's some giant hate mob ravaging the forums thing isn't as convincing as ya'll think it is.

It's always been bewildering to me how FFXIV players consistently misinterpret criticism as hate for the game. Unfortunately that has led things to where we are now, in which the discussions that need to be had for the game to improve are impossible to have.

[Lunaxia]

Yeah, fair enough. You're right in that I can't convince people beyond reason or understanding.

...I was talking about you. Under no circumstances is it ever acceptable to fly into an absolute rage and respond like that because you feel slighted against or attacked. You might feel hurt, or frustrated, or misunderstood by what people say, and that's normal, but the way in which you perceive what you hear and how very deeply and personally you take it is incredibly aggressive and concerning, to the point if I knew you in real life, I would feel quite wary. You take remarks on your posts and behaviour as attacks on you and can't differentiate between the two, and you also need to learn that while you may say one thing, that is not how it is coming across or appearing to someone else. Sometimes unconscious biases can seep through you're not aware of, and at times like that, perhaps reflect on what you hear rather than screaming at everyone else.

I'm also going to offer you some advice here, and I hope you will take this as advice and heed it, and not an attack: consider seeking professional help. If by any chance you are the good person you are purporting yourself to be, then I think a lot of it is being lost in personal issues you might not realise you're carrying. I really do mean this with the best of intentions, for you and those around you.

Let me just say this, and I mean it in all honesty and with all respect: it's not worth it. These same folk been complaining since 6.0 and will complain until 6.55 and probably beyond. If you liked it, that just has to be enough; ignore the hate, because it's not going to stop..

Are we still pretending this entire thread is just "hate" when the criticism is now being largely shared by the community across the board? Why would it be any different when if anything, most people actually agree the story has taken a stark downward slope since Endwalker?

This is what everybody here has been saying: mindlessly tarring everything said here with the same brush to lump it into one dismissive category is not reasoned discussion, and acting shocked when you get a rebuttal is silly on the face it.

[Banriikku]

Hate for Endwalker ? NO.
So whats wrong or my problem?

1. We have many NPC's with the sole purpose of Checkbox marking. No story telling or worldbuilding, just existing as "end in itself".
2. Endwalker ? More like "NO-Consequence-Walker". Many things happen without changing or shaping the world.
3. Repetition of outcomes and of gained information as if we would not listen and need a refresher EVERY 5 MINUTES.
4. Flat charchter arcs without progress, many even with regressing to old behavior without notice or reason.
5. We, as the protagonist, are not necessary for the story... at all we could be dead and still it would end up the way it is.
6. Deus Ex machina. ALL THE TIME. Here and there, its ok but damn Endwalker is based on this.
7. inconsistent story telling: All is dreadfull but my little pony with the power of friendship is the next logical step or "oh my god the stakes, we could loose so much" but here is Pudding.. funny ... haha.
7a. No real villains.... almost all and everybody is "not so bad" and has a redemption arc.
8. Almost no Worldbuilding in Endwalker itself. The most of it is already told through old expansions as if they had nothing to add.
9. Powerlevel... Where are we ? So what is our purpose again? It looks like we went from "we are Superman" to "we are Jimmy" and oscillate between those two for no reason.
10. Pacing. We go to learn something new and every aspect of it dragged out for no reason.

So my problem is not that "i hate" the story, its more like "Why the bad writing?".
The dialouge quality has dropped. NPC's talk with us as if we are toddlers. Repeating and always nice. We have no journey, we go from Deus Ex machinca to the next in which us Krile/Yshtola/Graha explains what/when/how we do things without earning them in any shape or form. And everybody is a sholar, diplomat, leader, magic expert, fighting expert, etc. without weakness except for us. And that leads to no telegraph for outcome or behavior. NPC's behave diffrently and weird, tools or knowledge are at our disposel that we should never have but we do and this makes many things obsolete and is therefore a huge problem in the lore and already told story.

And last but not least we are not allowed to come to a conclusion for behavior or expierence. We are told what to think and what is morally good and what is not. We are not allowed to draw our own conclusion. My best friend thinks Venat was right, i think she was not but the game tells me on repeat SHE WAS RIHGT instead of telling me the world of FF14 thinks she was right ... no she was right, stop thinking AND THINK WHAT WE WANT ABOUT IT. Absolut bonkers.

No hate at all but this is not good writing from SE.