BLM DPS

[Turtledeluxe]

I'm of the opinion that if you increase the damage to the BLM it's for pure satisfaction in seeing the parse. If sqe boosts it, I don't pull my hair out, because I'm not against its boost, but I just find it useless.

I'm of the opinion that boosting it would mean more people play the class, more people participate in Savage/Ultimate with the class, instead of being an "experts only club". And I'm not saying that because I personally suck at the class-- I actually find it easy to play. The reason I began thinking about utility in the first place is because if I am the last to survive in a party, I can't res anyone, so my high DPS is effectively useless for completing the fight (depending on the situation) as a BLM cannot sustain prolonged damage on the level of say, a WAR, or any melee with self healing. BLM has a single defensive measure with a long recast. I'm of the opinion that if you've mastered BLM to the point where you can have high DPS in an Ultimate fight, you deserve to be rewarded with at minimum equivalent DPS to whoever the number 1 spot is.

No I'm not denying it, I'm just sizing it up. because the considerations that statics make are also these: am I interested in having the ress or having more damage? So clearly having a utility is an advantage, but also having more damage it is. If the blm had the same damage as the rdm then I would agree with you but it doesn't.

Yes and I think data shows us over time, they choose utility. Unless I am misunderstanding and I am happy to be corrected.

[Ggwppino]

I'm of the opinion that boosting it would mean more people play the class, more people participate in Savage/Ultimate with the class, instead of being an "experts only club".

If we take any caster with the same damage percentile, the blm would still be in the lead, because it already basically does more damage.

I'm of the opinion that if you've mastered BLM to the point where you can have high DPS in an Ultimate fight, you deserve to be rewarded with at minimum equivalent DPS to whoever the number 1 spot is.

Do you see that it's just out of satisfaction of seeing a high number on a third-party site? I'm totally fine with that, but that doesn't gain the blm anything on a practical level. The last buff did, but an additional buff would not change the situation it is in now at all, it would just reconfirm it

Yes and I think data shows us over time, they choose utility. Unless I am misunderstanding and I am happy to be corrected.

Old smn. the old summoner had ress, but was played by few people, and was (with regret) revisited.

[Mikey_R]

If BLM does the same damage as SAM it would absolutely break balance, there is only so much loss of DPS the general playerbase will tolerate before the utility becomes meaningless.

Going right back to the core, fights are designed with a DPS split of 2 Melee, 1 Caster and 1 P-ranged.

Each DPS role is designed to do a specific amount of damage compared to the other roles. Melee > Caster > P-ranged. This stems from the perceived difficulty in keeping uptime. [NOTE: I know this isn't the case with more recent fights and this is a problem with fight design in general. If this is the direction they want to go in for the future, then all jobs need to be looked at.] The harder it is to keep 100% uptime, the more damage the job is designed to do, which also meant you lost more damage when you couldn't hit something, which helped to balance things out more.

Now, using this model, if we have a BLM who can do the same or more damage than a SAM, where the BLM can have a higher uptime, this breaks the optimisation the SAM has to do in order to try and stay in melee as much as possible. BLM is now the easier job to keep uptime AND it does more damage, no contest, it is the better job to take.

If you take this into the context of party composition, BLM has basically become a melee, which means you end up with an effective party of 3 Melee and 1 P-range. There is no point replacing one of your melees with a different caster, depending on fight mechanics, it could cause things to not be predictable, among other things, however, in the same vein, you aren't going to replace the BLM with a different caster. DPS is king after all and i have already stated that a job utility can only do so much.

On the subject of utility, if all jobs in a given role do NOT have the utility (res being a small exception), then that utility is not something they balance fights around. They do not want to make a specific job mandatory after all. Res is a bit different as it is a loss in damage, not just from the job being inherently weaker, but because you have to take time to res, but healers should be the priority in ressing anyway. So really, unique utility for a specific job is meaningless. This is why jobs tend to get similar tools, which is where homogeneity comes from. Which, talking about this, homogeneity has NOTHING to do with a jobs DPS or making the job easier. It all comes down to how similar the jobs are to each other. Tanks having a similar defensive suite for example.

Which brings me onto the last point. You say I treat this as, in your words, a 'science experiment'. Call it what you want, the only thing that matters is the facts. If this means it is treated as a science experiment, then that is what it is. If you want to make a change to how the job balance is currently, you need to critically think about what the repercussions of that change are going to be, both positive and negative. Like it or not, at the core, the game is just a numbers game. Balancing these numbers is an incredibly difficult task and a change in the wrong direction can have drastic consequences.

So, my question is, why do you think BLM has to do more damage than SAM? What makes you say that? What are the pros and cons to this change? How is this going to affect balance? Are you going to need to change other jobs to balance this? How do you plan to change them if that is what you want to do? So many questions from just asking a simple question and whilst the initial question only seems to look at Casters and Melee, it will also impact P-Ranged. Feelings do no come into this, just the logical steps which leads to a specific conclusion.

[Ransu]

Uptime for melee isn't an issue anymore.

[Bubos123]

First of all, a standard composition is 1 melee, 1 caster, 1 p-ranged and 1 free. No one said there must be 2 melee in the group, but SE has forced people to do so recently with job balance and fight design.

Besides, I don’t believe any melee job is more difficult in keeping uptime than BLM, even before EndWalker. And since EndWalker, there has been little difference between melee and p-ranged.

If BLM does the same damage as SAM it would absolutely break balance, there is only so much loss of DPS the general playerbase will tolerate before the utility becomes meaningless.

Going right back to the core, fights are designed with a DPS split of 2 Melee, 1 Caster and 1 P-ranged.

Each DPS role is designed to do a specific amount of damage compared to the other roles. Melee > Caster > P-ranged. This stems from the perceived difficulty in keeping uptime. [NOTE: I know this isn't the case with more recent fights and this is a problem with fight design in general. If this is the direction they want to go in for the future, then all jobs need to be looked at.] The harder it is to keep 100% uptime, the more damage the job is designed to do, which also meant you lost more damage when you couldn't hit something, which helped to balance things out more.

Now, using this model, if we have a BLM who can do the same or more damage than a SAM, where the BLM can have a higher uptime, this breaks the optimisation the SAM has to do in order to try and stay in melee as much as possible. BLM is now the easier job to keep uptime AND it does more damage, no contest, it is the better job to take.

If you take this into the context of party composition, BLM has basically become a melee, which means you end up with an effective party of 3 Melee and 1 P-range. There is no point replacing one of your melees with a different caster, depending on fight mechanics, it could cause things to not be predictable, among other things, however, in the same vein, you aren't going to replace the BLM with a different caster. DPS is king after all and i have already stated that a job utility can only do so much.

On the subject of utility, if all jobs in a given role do NOT have the utility (res being a small exception), then that utility is not something they balance fights around. They do not want to make a specific job mandatory after all. Res is a bit different as it is a loss in damage, not just from the job being inherently weaker, but because you have to take time to res, but healers should be the priority in ressing anyway. So really, unique utility for a specific job is meaningless. This is why jobs tend to get similar tools, which is where homogeneity comes from. Which, talking about this, homogeneity has NOTHING to do with a jobs DPS or making the job easier. It all comes down to how similar the jobs are to each other. Tanks having a similar defensive suite for example.

[CelestiCer]

waste of time/projection/assumptions - hypocrite.

Insulting me rather then tackling my points... I struck a nerve. And using " whataboutism " when it doesn't suit your narrative filled with canned arguments.

" 1. There is *no DPS argument*. I am no explicitly asking for DPS buffs. "
You are consistently stating that BLM does not feel worth playing. and would be worth playing if it had more DPS. You're searching for something BLM can get added with DPS or Utility or something as an extra unnecessary edge to fix a none-existing problem.

" 2. BLM is excluded in PF sometimes "
Victim mentality. Just get good. I gave RDM example of P8S week 1 prog because that's been the last time Job exclusion happened in PF that BLM didn't to an equal degree experience, not then and not now. PS: not meeting an ilvl requirement is not exclusive to BLM, just fyi.

" 3. Reaper is more popular because it does good enough damage, has party utility/limited healing, and ease of play *llike almost every class other than BLM*. "
Again Victimhood and BLM is the top Caster in DPS and competes with the top Melee in DPS, it's just factually false.

" 4. I never said BLM was suffering... "
You got quite the narrative going to make me think you do honestly...

" 5. If BLM could get more utility, how about this ? Lower the DPS, I don't care."
Extra utility will not make BLM more desirable, it goes against their Job identity which has been Selfish DPS and it's not going to solve whatever issue you think BLM has in your mind.

If BLM had a decent enough edge in DPS, that alone would be the motivator to play it.

TLDR: Victim Mentality.
Complaining about the top statistics that you probably haven't reached to even comment on with own experience. Like complaining about 1 race car being faster then another when you yourself don't even use the same car to race with. It's pointless. Yet wrapping it all up as a canned argument to spew the narrative that BLM is missing... something in your mind... and then insulting players when they give you facts/stats/links... I don't believe BLM is missing any DPS and buffing them just ruins the balance we have.

If only players spend more time in-game improving themselves vs complaining about the none-existing lack of performance their Job supposedly does on the Forums =u=;;

[AsiTsurugi]

Uptime for melee isn't an issue anymore.

It never really was an issue, it really was a skill that players had to learn. Then we have SE "devs" overcompensating for their own ineptitude in comprehension, design or both, by making boss hitboxes at least 50% of the arena size starting in Promise. Catering to whiners like the OP and the other guy who can't understand the concept of "class is doing just fine, you need to learn your class before vomiting words" most probably played a role in it as well.

[Mikey_R]

Uptime for melee isn't an issue anymore.

[NOTE: I know this isn't the case with more recent fights and this is a problem with fight design in general. If this is the direction they want to go in for the future, then all jobs need to be looked at.]

Don't know if this was meant to undermine what I said, however, I did address this point in the post I am assuming you are referring to.

First of all, a standard composition is 1 melee, 1 caster, 1 p-ranged and 1 free. No one said there must be 2 melee in the group, but SE has forced people to do so recently with job balance and fight design.

Besides, I don’t believe any melee job is more difficult in keeping uptime than BLM, even before EndWalker. And since EndWalker, there has been little difference between melee and p-ranged.

No, that is fundamentally false. All DPS mechanics are designed to be tackled by 2 melee, 1 caster and 1 p-range. Whilst you can replace a melee with a different role, that doesn't change the fact it was designed to be done with a melee.

Melee keeping uptime has gotten easier and easier throughout the expansions, yes, however that doesn't change the fact that the dev team see it in a certain way and balance jobs around that that metric. This is why I also made the comment, which I have quoted above that if current design philosophy sticks, then job balance as a whole needs to be looked at.

[Bubos123]

I think YoshiP said there was “difficulty tax” regarding damage output. But obviously it’s just an excuse after they found people were unsatisfactory with job balance, bc what they did isn’t consistent with what they said. Difficulty is a subjective thing more or less, but I bet you most people will agree BLM is harder to play than SAM. Managing job balance is not easy, I agree. And buffing one class will certainly annoy those playing other classes. But the thing is, SE is just doing it with their own criteria. Since the beginning of EndWalker they have put an emphasis on melee.

If BLM does the same damage as SAM it would absolutely break balance, there is only so much loss of DPS the general playerbase will tolerate before the utility becomes meaningless.

Going right back to the core, fights are designed with a DPS split of 2 Melee, 1 Caster and 1 P-ranged.

Each DPS role is designed to do a specific amount of damage compared to the other roles. Melee > Caster > P-ranged. This stems from the perceived difficulty in keeping uptime. [NOTE: I know this isn't the case with more recent fights and this is a problem with fight design in general. If this is the direction they want to go in for the future, then all jobs need to be looked at.] The harder it is to keep 100% uptime, the more damage the job is designed to do, which also meant you lost more damage when you couldn't hit something, which helped to balance things out more.

Now, using this model, if we have a BLM who can do the same or more damage than a SAM, where the BLM can have a higher uptime, this breaks the optimisation the SAM has to do in order to try and stay in melee as much as possible. BLM is now the easier job to keep uptime AND it does more damage, no contest, it is the better job to take.

If you take this into the context of party composition, BLM has basically become a melee, which means you end up with an effective party of 3 Melee and 1 P-range. There is no point replacing one of your melees with a different caster, depending on fight mechanics, it could cause things to not be predictable, among other things, however, in the same vein, you aren't going to replace the BLM with a different caster. DPS is king after all and i have already stated that a job utility can only do so much.

On the subject of utility, if all jobs in a given role do NOT have the utility (res being a small exception), then that utility is not something they balance fights around. They do not want to make a specific job mandatory after all. Res is a bit different as it is a loss in damage, not just from the job being inherently weaker, but because you have to take time to res, but healers should be the priority in ressing anyway. So really, unique utility for a specific job is meaningless. This is why jobs tend to get similar tools, which is where

[Turtledeluxe]

Insulting me rather then tackling my points

Learned it from your jaded posts.

You are consistently stating that BLM does not feel worth playing.

Yes, that's different from saying it absolutely has to have a buff. I'm glad you finally understand. Now, once again stop being so overdramatic with the wording. When I say it isn't worth playing, I am obviously referring to what TC asked in their original post. What is the point of a glass cannon that isn't the top DPS? They have all these trade offs, but not top DPS. You keep saying "well they're top DPS in caster" -- that's meaningless.

Victim mentality. Just get good.

I've never personally be excluded and you should honestly be forum banned for your needless antagonism of newer players. You are one of the reasons people leave this game, undoubtedly. You are a horrible representation of the player base.

You got quite the narrative going to make me think you do honestly...

No you just like to start fights and don't think-- that's your problem overall. I have had perfectly fine dialogue with everyone but you. Sit down.

When I tell you directly I am not just asking for DPS buffs and you willfully disregard that and proceed to insult me further, you're just proving your own ignorance. My posts are all there for people to read. I haven't claimed I have all the answers and I am open to several different things. If you don't think there's a problem then leave the thread otherwise whya re you still here

Extra utility will not make BLM more desirable, it goes against their Job identity which has been Selfish DPS and it's not going to solve whatever issue you think BLM has in your mind.

And they are a selfish dps, just one that requires way more effort than its counterpart (Samurai).

Complaining about the top statistics that you probably haven't reached to even comment on with own experience.

I'm not complaining about the leaderboards. I am complaining that BLM feels redundant and there's little incentive to play it. That's the theme of the topic. Pay attention.

I think it's best you go on ignore actually, so continue garbling my posts into your own narrative to your hearts content. I don't care. I'm not talking to you anyway.