BLM DPS

[Turtledeluxe]

Sounds like a skill issue there buddy, might be time to not be bad at the game. Crying about "mechanics" in your roulette content is not it.

And here we have the exact example of why some people don't play the job. "Well just be an expert at FFXIV, silly!". Not everyone plays the game like their life depends on and knows every fight like the back of their hand. I personally get commendations often-- I don't track my DPS but I assume it's high fairly often and I've even been told my dps is good directly sometimes. Casual content is too easy imo. But this kind of attitude discourages people. If you're learning this particular (I personally wouldn't say difficult, but it's different) job it can be discouraging to be trying really hard to keep up with your rotation 24/7 and know every fight up and down only to be quickly told "get gud" at every turn. I encounter new healers and tanks that suck allll the time and I'm never rude to them because I want to give them a chance to learn their role, not minmax them out of the game.

I'd be super interested to know if you respond to healers and tanks this way, or even other DPS.

[Ransu]

How is every player here suddenly a top Percentile BLM...

Y'all can join us peasants with our Jobs being reworked, simplified, our skills getting deleted. BLM's are free to join us. You get to keep your gameplay, you're Yoshi P's lovechild and somehow still complain about the top DPS percentile performance that most of y'all never get to see. I see BLM's steamroll players, SAM's included in PF environments where people really do not want to adjust to give BLM's their positions. Even the recent Omega Ultimate, BLM's outshine SMN's in performance due to the nature of their skill-kits. And if players can take BLM's to Ultimate and perform there? anything else below it is not going to be impossible.

I am genuinely curious... in what way is BLM suffering? what recent Job changes are BLM suffering from like the majority of us? what content could you not clear where you took BLM to in 6.35? and have you reached the peak percentage to witness the differences between the top percentile performances y'all are making such a mole hill out of?

Nah, my SAM is in a garbled mess of gear and I still out do even the good BLM's. SAM despite how boring it is now is still bonkers with its dps.

[CelestiCer]

Nah, my SAM is in a garbled mess of gear and I still out do even the good BLM's. SAM despite how boring it is now is still bonkers with its dps.

It's 1 person's observation, I seen my fair share. It's not out of the ordinary. It's just that it's so one-sided the way Turtle presents BLM performance like it's lower DPS then a Dead SGE

snip

Again, you answered zero points.

Granted you stated being fairly new and you're being corrected by players with more experience yet you shrug it off as irrelevant. The DPS argument is pretty much refuted if you but look at FFlogs's statistics of the current relevant content. Links below, and it's far more then just giving the RDPS page a single blink.
ADPS here / NDPS here / The Omega Protocol Ultimate here

RPR popularity is higher then BLM because of Aesthetics and ease of use. Has nothing to do about Utility. Then you state BLM participation being low which again is related to popularity unrelated to DPS performance vs gameplay preferences of players. You then indirectly reference posts from years ago without links which is years ago, we're talking about the now. I asked if BLM ever got nerfed and its satirical since they haven't had a horrible change hit them like the rest of the Job roster in ever. That's a fact. You could have argued that other Jobs got buffed and BLM got left behind, but FFLogs again will proof you wrong on that.

Even if you desired more DPS output? Job difficulty is not what dictates DPS performance even if the hardest Job should feel like it has the most DPS -> it's just not Square's stance and they contradicted their own statements endlessly regarding DPS performance being related to Job difficulty.

You're showing no evidence/references/links that BLM are indeed suffering to justify buffs other then a personal desire to want more DPS performance that won't fix any of the issues you think BLM has. BLM has been in a very good spot for almost every patch. You then claim BLM gets excluded from PF parties and that's just not true. I go to PF on every NA Datacenter and rarely does any Job get excluded nowadays. Maybe RDM on week 1 P8S prog but lets not talk about that now amirite?

In Conclusion...
I think you're projecting a victim mentality on the BLM job that doesn't really do much for you as a player nor the BLM job as a whole. BLM has enough DPS for the role its supposed fulfill and you can throw BLM at any content and it can clear it.

[Turtledeluxe]

It's 1 person's observation, I seen my fair share. It's not out of the ordinary. It's just that it's so one-sided the way Turtle presents BLM performance like it's lower DPS then a Dead SGE
waste of time/projection/assumptions

1. There is *no DPS argument*. I am no explicitly asking for DPS buffs. That was something in the original post of the thread, not mine. I said distance may need to be created between BLM dps and some other classes-- that does not mean a buff. I said adding utility to the class would help-- that is not a buff. The question is what purpose is there in a glass cannon build that isn't really top dps and otherwise lacks any utility? You haven't answered that question. And yes what those logs are showing us is that BLM does good damage-- something I've said 60 times but you can't seem to read. The issue is that other classes do sufficient damage. It isn't garbage bin damage for the majority of classes. PLUS they have advantageous mobility and utility. I also didn't shrug off anything as irrelevant, I reviewed information before it was linked to me and reassessed, whereas you are an annoying know it all who can't stay on topic and cant use google.

2. BLM is excluded in PF sometimes-- I'm sorry but saying it doesn't happen ever is not correct. Pointing to RDM is more whataboutism. This thread is not about RDM.

3. Reaper is more popular because it does good enough damage, has party utility/limited healing, and ease of play *llike almost every class other than BLM*.

4. I never said BLM was suffering, you made that up I never said BLM can't clear content. You made that up too.

adding 5. If BLM could get more utility, how about this ? Lower the DPS, I don't care.

This conversation is over. You are just some random jaded player looking to dunk on people. BLM is my main class and the only reason I still play it is because I find it very fun to play. What's not fun about it is that other classes do enough damage and have enough overall viability to make it barely worth the effort of playing BLM-- and players confirm this actively by not playing the class over several years of time

I do not need to link you to threads you can easily google yourself regarding BLM participation in raids or the state of BLM generally. You still have mentioned which classes got nerfed either. Like I said, over-- hypocrite.

[Turtledeluxe]

Nah, my SAM is in a garbled mess of gear and I still out do even the good BLM's. SAM despite how boring it is now is still bonkers with its dps.

Yes, I know. Meleewalker. It's not just a phrase I made up on my own.

[Ggwppino]

If BLM could get more utility, how about this ? Lower the DPS, I don't care.

what do you mean by utilities? You mean a party buff? which would drastically lower the aDPS but the rDPS would remain the same. do you mean mitigation utility? What do you have with addle.

BLM is my main class and the only reason I still play it is because I find it very fun to play.

And that's the important thing! I'm glad for you that your main class hasn't been drained like mine that I've been playing for years.

What's not fun about it is that other classes do enough damage and have enough overall viability to make it barely worth the effort of playing BLM-- and players confirm this actively by not playing the class over several years of time

The BLM has one of the least compromised statistics on fflog. Whoever plays blm is because he loves class and knows very well that his damage is also proportionate to his uptime.

but i don't understand why the blm has to worry about melee damage. Melee are a different category, they don't break the blm's ability to play, unless sqe upgrades melee and not the blm with the next patches (which I think is the main thing and the mch has actually lived for almost 2 years , mistreated because mathematically inefficient).
I agree that for SQE statements: "Adjustments for each job are made individually based on the damage value, which is the standard value according to the item level, based on the difficulty of operation of each job, the difficulty of rotation, the number of support actions, and the details of their effects". https://jp.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...750.1663319334
the blm should be first (and in aDPS it often is), but even if they increased their damage further what would change? The blm is in a position to always be able to play. Before the buff he was in a bad position as he was only competing for the caster position without actually being rewarded. He is a caster and has a very specific role in the party but he does so much damage that he can have the doors open even for the melee position. (In this case of melee, because it's meleewalker, you said right, but whatever the meta, the blm currently would have the path paved and have a double chance to play)

[Turtledeluxe]

aDPS

But you have said its aDPS is already far too high compared to its counterparts. Now you are saying the aDPS cannot be lowered in favor of more utility. Yet Summoner, who has lower aDPS and utility, is extremely utilized for the new raid. Your answer is still "Well BLM's place in the game is that they kinda do melee damage". You are saying BLM can only compete with melee for DPS but not other casters for progression. Notice that Summoners are annoyed by their gameplay not their DPS. You keep painting me as DPS obssessed when I am not and I have no indicated that in any way. It's more about what BLM DPS means for it as a class in the game, not necessarily how high it is for the sake of beating out others.[/QUOTE]

but i don't understand why the blm has to worry about melee damage.

How would it break the game if BLM did more damage than a Samurai? I am genuinely curious. Since you keep bringing it up.

double chance to play)

I feel like you have a rose tinted vision of BLM based on your own time in very high percentiles where the ones who participate are very high performing (which I have never disputed). I don't play Ultimates and I haven't even started the latest Savage raids so my experience is limited to raising the class and some high end content. Yes, it's true BLM do very well at the very top, but that's because everyone does so imo what you're arguing isn't a cure all for this thread.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-more-utility/
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/351445/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...est_raid_tier/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...as_people_say/

Not saying they're suffering or that its widespread But I'm also saying that leveling as BLM and starting high end as BLM does feel rough sometimes because expectations are high (because of the percentiles) and it does feel a little frustrating because (and this is going to sound like a hot take)other casters have automatic desirability based on their utility -- they get a free pass where BLM has to prove it (not to say that really bad players can skate by with a res, bc they can't, that's not what I am saying). Although the player base in general is very nice, raiders often judge things by desirability and how it fits into a meta, and from what I understand, BLM simply is not that. This doesn't mean other casters affect my ability play the class, it doesn't mean the world is ending, it just means I am intrigued by TCs question of -- what is the point of a glass cannon build that doesn't really do top DMG and doesn't bring anything else to the party? But the conversation will go nowhere bc you and other players seem to think that BLM having "double the chance to play" (which, tbh, sounds like a cop out to TCs question) in very high end content means the class is perfect.

[Ggwppino]

But you have said its aDPS is already far too high compared to its counterparts. Now you are saying the aDPS cannot be lowered in favor of more utility.

I might have explained myself badly. If you add the party buff to the blm, I don't see why it should be first in aDPS/nDPS. It is no longer a pure dps.

You keep painting me as DPS obssessed when I am not and I have no indicated that in any way

You focused on that fact, I just wanted to make a note on what the post said. His thesis was that other classes did equal damage to blm but they also had buffs, and he started listing classes with buffs. I corrected by saying that the blm actually, even considering the buffs, does more damage than the other casters (filtering the fact that the blm is a caster and has nothing to do with the other types of dps).

How would it break the game if BLM did more damage than a Samurai?

It doesn't break any balance. But precisely because the two things are not related. Ah then I'm not against the buff dps of the blm, but I just find it useless.

I'm also saying that leveling as BLM and starting high end as BLM does feel rough sometimes because expectations are high and it does feel a little frustrating because other casters have automatic desirability based on their utility

The pressure is due to the fact that you are a pure dps and if you don't do dps you risk being mistreated. But this applies to all dps.

The blm right from the start has always been the caster with rDPS higher. It's right? absolutely yes and personally if put only like this it is also little.

In fairness, he got an extra burst entering the melee rDPS window (which melee are deliberately blatantly the dps that need to do the most damage).

Before there was a clear rDPS windows distinction between melees, casters and p-ranged.

A static may prefer whether to have more ress and choose an RDM, or have more dps like a melee and then choose a BLM. And a static may consider having a BLM in team instead of a melee (since the BLM has broken the caster rDPS barrier). You say that the ress is a free pass to get the spot, but in general that's not the case: it's a great way not to reset immediately during the mechanics prog but its true usefulness ends there.

they get a free pass where BLM has to prove it

the right optimization must always be there, if you are a rdm and you don't reach the standards the static set, there is no excuse for that, not even the much glorified ress. However it is a dps and in any case it must deal a fair amount of damage.

raiders often judge things by desirability and how it fits into a meta, and from what I understand, BLM simply is not that

You are right that many raiders are cynical and want the best. That's why the mch for 2 years has been loused up like the plague. But I don't understand why the blm should be regarded as the mch. Why shouldn't the blm be considered desirable? If it brings high dps?*

what is the point of a glass cannon build that doesn't really do top DMG and doesn't bring anything else to the party?

Even with a fine optimization, a blm still remains superior to other casters. Also, being a pure dps, it clearly only carries dps.
But the concept is even more general: why should I have a dps in party that doesn't do dps?



------
*I pretended nothing or rather wrote between the lines because I am afraid to open this parenthesis because it could be misinterpreted / my basic English does not allow me to express myself at my best, not digested well or open a pandora's box.
BLM is one of the few classes that is still complicated to optimize. Hard-content is slowly being made more and more accessible by those who take a class at 90 as soon as it is done and demand right away to be able to close. In the mmo's I have always played, before tackling hard-content, there was a need to learn one's class well, either because players demanded it or because the game itself demanded it. This does not mean to give clear-cut difference between those who are good and those who are not, it means that those who wanted to do high-level content had to put dedication into it and not have it ready-made right away. This is evidenced by the extreme simplification that the classes are reaching: the mnk, a positional class, has lost practically all the positional, the sam which slowly lost everything that characterized it and made it much more complex to the point of even removing kaiten, the mch which slowly became the class it is now, arriving at the abomination (in the extreme simplification of rotation) that is the smn. Not to mention the extreme size of the hitboxes making melee gain perennial uptime and making tanks lose the role of positioning. Having opened this parenthesis, the BLM but also the RDM have to compete with a class that has autoplay and also with a mobility of a p-ranged. Clearly they are at a distinct disadvantage because a class that has no damage variance since it has nothing to optimize (thus guaranteed damage and also high) with a ress can close so many doors to these two classes: Why bring in an rdm or a blm that may not know how to quickly optimize damage, when I can bring in a class with autopilot and in extreme cases also has ress? Currently blm and rdm have a big problem and that is the unfair no depth of smn. So while the BLM damage is fair, it is the bug in the system that makes life difficult for other casters in general. Or rather, the problem does not lie in the blm but lies in the casters situation (actually in smn).

[Turtledeluxe]

I might have explained myself badly. If you add the party buff to the blm, I don't see why it should be first in aDPS/nDPS. It is no longer a pure dps.

And? As I keep saying you are basically saying you only want BLM to be an inferior alternative to SAM (harder to prog with, not as high DPS), with no utility (so casters with utility will always be preferred to them). I am asking why we cannot position BLM to be more desirable, and you cannot answer it except to say that I am imagining that it is undesirable. So I suppose we just have to disagree.

It doesn't break any balance.

So why have you and other people been arguing with me, sometimes to an insulting degree (no in your case), that BLM just can't have any more DPS? I don't understand. Doing equal to or more DPS than SAM either means nerfing SAM a bit or buffing BLM (and technically either way, it's a buff for BLM). On the other hand we can't give BLM utility. Again I am asking, are you telling me the best case for BLM you can come up with is its current state, where it is an inferior DPS option and void utility option?

But this applies to all dps.

You are willfully denying that a DPS with utility has an edge.

A static may prefer whether to have more ress and choose an RDM, or have more dps like a melee and then choose a BLM. And a static may consider having a BLM in team instead of a melee (since the BLM has broken the caster rDPS barrier). You say that the ress is a free pass to get the spot, but in general that's not the case: it's a great way not to reset immediately during the mechanics prog but its true usefulness ends there.

Ah, now we are downplaying res, of course. So why don't we make Summoners top DPS and make BLM a res/DPS class? No one would want that because Summoners love the spot they're in right now, gameplay issues aside. Again, conversation will go no where because your interest is keeping things the same. I think the game should be updated, often. Also I already said that res is not necessarily a free pass, but denying that utility isn't valued in raids over a selfish DPS is dishonest. I don't want to sound mean but it's not even a conversation you're having in good faith.

But the concept is even more general: why should I have a dps in party that doesn't do dps?

What are you talking about? RDM and SMN are not top DPS yet are highly desirable. BLM does not need to be a selfish DPS-- it simply is one by design (of the developers), and not an ideal one, based on your own arguments presented here.

So, in conclusion, I remain unconvinced that the thread has been satisfactorily answered.
"BLM does enough DPS to clear" -- yes and SAM does more, with more efficiency.
"BLM competes with melee" -- and? Let's be honest, they don't compete for the caster spot if meta is a concern for the party.
"BLM can't have utility, other casters have that" -- then homogenize all the casters as moderate DPS/ moderate utility each with their own unique utility. It isn't that hard. Homogenization seems to be their thing anyway.

Or we could just do what is the most simple and makes the most sense, and buff BLM /nerf SAM, which is what the very post asks, that people have dismissed so much.

[Ggwppino]

And? As I keep saying you are basically saying you only want BLM to be an inferior alternative to SAM (harder to prog with, not as high DPS), with no utility (so casters with utility will always be preferred to them). I am asking why we cannot position BLM to be more desirable, and you cannot answer it except to say that I am imagining that it is undesirable. So I suppose we just have to disagree.

I'm of the opinion that if you increase the damage to the BLM it's for pure satisfaction in seeing the parse. If sqe boosts it, I don't pull my hair out, because I'm not against its boost, but I just find it useless.

You are willfully denying that a DPS with utility has an edge.

No I'm not denying it, I'm just sizing it up. because the considerations that statics make are also these: am I interested in having the ress or having more damage? So clearly having a utility is an advantage, but also having more damage it is. If the blm had the same damage as the rdm then I would agree with you but it doesn't.