BLM DPS

[Turtledeluxe]

It's 1 person's observation, I seen my fair share. It's not out of the ordinary. It's just that it's so one-sided the way Turtle presents BLM performance like it's lower DPS then a Dead SGE
waste of time/projection/assumptions

1. There is *no DPS argument*. I am no explicitly asking for DPS buffs. That was something in the original post of the thread, not mine. I said distance may need to be created between BLM dps and some other classes-- that does not mean a buff. I said adding utility to the class would help-- that is not a buff. The question is what purpose is there in a glass cannon build that isn't really top dps and otherwise lacks any utility? You haven't answered that question. And yes what those logs are showing us is that BLM does good damage-- something I've said 60 times but you can't seem to read. The issue is that other classes do sufficient damage. It isn't garbage bin damage for the majority of classes. PLUS they have advantageous mobility and utility. I also didn't shrug off anything as irrelevant, I reviewed information before it was linked to me and reassessed, whereas you are an annoying know it all who can't stay on topic and cant use google.

2. BLM is excluded in PF sometimes-- I'm sorry but saying it doesn't happen ever is not correct. Pointing to RDM is more whataboutism. This thread is not about RDM.

3. Reaper is more popular because it does good enough damage, has party utility/limited healing, and ease of play *llike almost every class other than BLM*.

4. I never said BLM was suffering, you made that up I never said BLM can't clear content. You made that up too.

adding 5. If BLM could get more utility, how about this ? Lower the DPS, I don't care.

This conversation is over. You are just some random jaded player looking to dunk on people. BLM is my main class and the only reason I still play it is because I find it very fun to play. What's not fun about it is that other classes do enough damage and have enough overall viability to make it barely worth the effort of playing BLM-- and players confirm this actively by not playing the class over several years of time

I do not need to link you to threads you can easily google yourself regarding BLM participation in raids or the state of BLM generally. You still have mentioned which classes got nerfed either. Like I said, over-- hypocrite.

[Ggwppino]

If BLM could get more utility, how about this ? Lower the DPS, I don't care.

what do you mean by utilities? You mean a party buff? which would drastically lower the aDPS but the rDPS would remain the same. do you mean mitigation utility? What do you have with addle.

BLM is my main class and the only reason I still play it is because I find it very fun to play.

And that's the important thing! I'm glad for you that your main class hasn't been drained like mine that I've been playing for years.

What's not fun about it is that other classes do enough damage and have enough overall viability to make it barely worth the effort of playing BLM-- and players confirm this actively by not playing the class over several years of time

The BLM has one of the least compromised statistics on fflog. Whoever plays blm is because he loves class and knows very well that his damage is also proportionate to his uptime.

but i don't understand why the blm has to worry about melee damage. Melee are a different category, they don't break the blm's ability to play, unless sqe upgrades melee and not the blm with the next patches (which I think is the main thing and the mch has actually lived for almost 2 years , mistreated because mathematically inefficient).
I agree that for SQE statements: "Adjustments for each job are made individually based on the damage value, which is the standard value according to the item level, based on the difficulty of operation of each job, the difficulty of rotation, the number of support actions, and the details of their effects". https://jp.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...750.1663319334
the blm should be first (and in aDPS it often is), but even if they increased their damage further what would change? The blm is in a position to always be able to play. Before the buff he was in a bad position as he was only competing for the caster position without actually being rewarded. He is a caster and has a very specific role in the party but he does so much damage that he can have the doors open even for the melee position. (In this case of melee, because it's meleewalker, you said right, but whatever the meta, the blm currently would have the path paved and have a double chance to play)

[Turtledeluxe]

aDPS

But you have said its aDPS is already far too high compared to its counterparts. Now you are saying the aDPS cannot be lowered in favor of more utility. Yet Summoner, who has lower aDPS and utility, is extremely utilized for the new raid. Your answer is still "Well BLM's place in the game is that they kinda do melee damage". You are saying BLM can only compete with melee for DPS but not other casters for progression. Notice that Summoners are annoyed by their gameplay not their DPS. You keep painting me as DPS obssessed when I am not and I have no indicated that in any way. It's more about what BLM DPS means for it as a class in the game, not necessarily how high it is for the sake of beating out others.[/QUOTE]

but i don't understand why the blm has to worry about melee damage.

How would it break the game if BLM did more damage than a Samurai? I am genuinely curious. Since you keep bringing it up.

double chance to play)

I feel like you have a rose tinted vision of BLM based on your own time in very high percentiles where the ones who participate are very high performing (which I have never disputed). I don't play Ultimates and I haven't even started the latest Savage raids so my experience is limited to raising the class and some high end content. Yes, it's true BLM do very well at the very top, but that's because everyone does so imo what you're arguing isn't a cure all for this thread.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-more-utility/
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/351445/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...est_raid_tier/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...as_people_say/

Not saying they're suffering or that its widespread But I'm also saying that leveling as BLM and starting high end as BLM does feel rough sometimes because expectations are high (because of the percentiles) and it does feel a little frustrating because (and this is going to sound like a hot take)other casters have automatic desirability based on their utility -- they get a free pass where BLM has to prove it (not to say that really bad players can skate by with a res, bc they can't, that's not what I am saying). Although the player base in general is very nice, raiders often judge things by desirability and how it fits into a meta, and from what I understand, BLM simply is not that. This doesn't mean other casters affect my ability play the class, it doesn't mean the world is ending, it just means I am intrigued by TCs question of -- what is the point of a glass cannon build that doesn't really do top DMG and doesn't bring anything else to the party? But the conversation will go nowhere bc you and other players seem to think that BLM having "double the chance to play" (which, tbh, sounds like a cop out to TCs question) in very high end content means the class is perfect.

[Ggwppino]

But you have said its aDPS is already far too high compared to its counterparts. Now you are saying the aDPS cannot be lowered in favor of more utility.

I might have explained myself badly. If you add the party buff to the blm, I don't see why it should be first in aDPS/nDPS. It is no longer a pure dps.

You keep painting me as DPS obssessed when I am not and I have no indicated that in any way

You focused on that fact, I just wanted to make a note on what the post said. His thesis was that other classes did equal damage to blm but they also had buffs, and he started listing classes with buffs. I corrected by saying that the blm actually, even considering the buffs, does more damage than the other casters (filtering the fact that the blm is a caster and has nothing to do with the other types of dps).

How would it break the game if BLM did more damage than a Samurai?

It doesn't break any balance. But precisely because the two things are not related. Ah then I'm not against the buff dps of the blm, but I just find it useless.

I'm also saying that leveling as BLM and starting high end as BLM does feel rough sometimes because expectations are high and it does feel a little frustrating because other casters have automatic desirability based on their utility

The pressure is due to the fact that you are a pure dps and if you don't do dps you risk being mistreated. But this applies to all dps.

The blm right from the start has always been the caster with rDPS higher. It's right? absolutely yes and personally if put only like this it is also little.

In fairness, he got an extra burst entering the melee rDPS window (which melee are deliberately blatantly the dps that need to do the most damage).

Before there was a clear rDPS windows distinction between melees, casters and p-ranged.

A static may prefer whether to have more ress and choose an RDM, or have more dps like a melee and then choose a BLM. And a static may consider having a BLM in team instead of a melee (since the BLM has broken the caster rDPS barrier). You say that the ress is a free pass to get the spot, but in general that's not the case: it's a great way not to reset immediately during the mechanics prog but its true usefulness ends there.

they get a free pass where BLM has to prove it

the right optimization must always be there, if you are a rdm and you don't reach the standards the static set, there is no excuse for that, not even the much glorified ress. However it is a dps and in any case it must deal a fair amount of damage.

raiders often judge things by desirability and how it fits into a meta, and from what I understand, BLM simply is not that

You are right that many raiders are cynical and want the best. That's why the mch for 2 years has been loused up like the plague. But I don't understand why the blm should be regarded as the mch. Why shouldn't the blm be considered desirable? If it brings high dps?*

what is the point of a glass cannon build that doesn't really do top DMG and doesn't bring anything else to the party?

Even with a fine optimization, a blm still remains superior to other casters. Also, being a pure dps, it clearly only carries dps.
But the concept is even more general: why should I have a dps in party that doesn't do dps?



------
*I pretended nothing or rather wrote between the lines because I am afraid to open this parenthesis because it could be misinterpreted / my basic English does not allow me to express myself at my best, not digested well or open a pandora's box.
BLM is one of the few classes that is still complicated to optimize. Hard-content is slowly being made more and more accessible by those who take a class at 90 as soon as it is done and demand right away to be able to close. In the mmo's I have always played, before tackling hard-content, there was a need to learn one's class well, either because players demanded it or because the game itself demanded it. This does not mean to give clear-cut difference between those who are good and those who are not, it means that those who wanted to do high-level content had to put dedication into it and not have it ready-made right away. This is evidenced by the extreme simplification that the classes are reaching: the mnk, a positional class, has lost practically all the positional, the sam which slowly lost everything that characterized it and made it much more complex to the point of even removing kaiten, the mch which slowly became the class it is now, arriving at the abomination (in the extreme simplification of rotation) that is the smn. Not to mention the extreme size of the hitboxes making melee gain perennial uptime and making tanks lose the role of positioning. Having opened this parenthesis, the BLM but also the RDM have to compete with a class that has autoplay and also with a mobility of a p-ranged. Clearly they are at a distinct disadvantage because a class that has no damage variance since it has nothing to optimize (thus guaranteed damage and also high) with a ress can close so many doors to these two classes: Why bring in an rdm or a blm that may not know how to quickly optimize damage, when I can bring in a class with autopilot and in extreme cases also has ress? Currently blm and rdm have a big problem and that is the unfair no depth of smn. So while the BLM damage is fair, it is the bug in the system that makes life difficult for other casters in general. Or rather, the problem does not lie in the blm but lies in the casters situation (actually in smn).

[Turtledeluxe]

I might have explained myself badly. If you add the party buff to the blm, I don't see why it should be first in aDPS/nDPS. It is no longer a pure dps.

And? As I keep saying you are basically saying you only want BLM to be an inferior alternative to SAM (harder to prog with, not as high DPS), with no utility (so casters with utility will always be preferred to them). I am asking why we cannot position BLM to be more desirable, and you cannot answer it except to say that I am imagining that it is undesirable. So I suppose we just have to disagree.

It doesn't break any balance.

So why have you and other people been arguing with me, sometimes to an insulting degree (no in your case), that BLM just can't have any more DPS? I don't understand. Doing equal to or more DPS than SAM either means nerfing SAM a bit or buffing BLM (and technically either way, it's a buff for BLM). On the other hand we can't give BLM utility. Again I am asking, are you telling me the best case for BLM you can come up with is its current state, where it is an inferior DPS option and void utility option?

But this applies to all dps.

You are willfully denying that a DPS with utility has an edge.

A static may prefer whether to have more ress and choose an RDM, or have more dps like a melee and then choose a BLM. And a static may consider having a BLM in team instead of a melee (since the BLM has broken the caster rDPS barrier). You say that the ress is a free pass to get the spot, but in general that's not the case: it's a great way not to reset immediately during the mechanics prog but its true usefulness ends there.

Ah, now we are downplaying res, of course. So why don't we make Summoners top DPS and make BLM a res/DPS class? No one would want that because Summoners love the spot they're in right now, gameplay issues aside. Again, conversation will go no where because your interest is keeping things the same. I think the game should be updated, often. Also I already said that res is not necessarily a free pass, but denying that utility isn't valued in raids over a selfish DPS is dishonest. I don't want to sound mean but it's not even a conversation you're having in good faith.

But the concept is even more general: why should I have a dps in party that doesn't do dps?

What are you talking about? RDM and SMN are not top DPS yet are highly desirable. BLM does not need to be a selfish DPS-- it simply is one by design (of the developers), and not an ideal one, based on your own arguments presented here.

So, in conclusion, I remain unconvinced that the thread has been satisfactorily answered.
"BLM does enough DPS to clear" -- yes and SAM does more, with more efficiency.
"BLM competes with melee" -- and? Let's be honest, they don't compete for the caster spot if meta is a concern for the party.
"BLM can't have utility, other casters have that" -- then homogenize all the casters as moderate DPS/ moderate utility each with their own unique utility. It isn't that hard. Homogenization seems to be their thing anyway.

Or we could just do what is the most simple and makes the most sense, and buff BLM /nerf SAM, which is what the very post asks, that people have dismissed so much.

[Ggwppino]

And? As I keep saying you are basically saying you only want BLM to be an inferior alternative to SAM (harder to prog with, not as high DPS), with no utility (so casters with utility will always be preferred to them). I am asking why we cannot position BLM to be more desirable, and you cannot answer it except to say that I am imagining that it is undesirable. So I suppose we just have to disagree.

I'm of the opinion that if you increase the damage to the BLM it's for pure satisfaction in seeing the parse. If sqe boosts it, I don't pull my hair out, because I'm not against its boost, but I just find it useless.

You are willfully denying that a DPS with utility has an edge.

No I'm not denying it, I'm just sizing it up. because the considerations that statics make are also these: am I interested in having the ress or having more damage? So clearly having a utility is an advantage, but also having more damage it is. If the blm had the same damage as the rdm then I would agree with you but it doesn't.

[Turtledeluxe]

I'm of the opinion that if you increase the damage to the BLM it's for pure satisfaction in seeing the parse. If sqe boosts it, I don't pull my hair out, because I'm not against its boost, but I just find it useless.

I'm of the opinion that boosting it would mean more people play the class, more people participate in Savage/Ultimate with the class, instead of being an "experts only club". And I'm not saying that because I personally suck at the class-- I actually find it easy to play. The reason I began thinking about utility in the first place is because if I am the last to survive in a party, I can't res anyone, so my high DPS is effectively useless for completing the fight (depending on the situation) as a BLM cannot sustain prolonged damage on the level of say, a WAR, or any melee with self healing. BLM has a single defensive measure with a long recast. I'm of the opinion that if you've mastered BLM to the point where you can have high DPS in an Ultimate fight, you deserve to be rewarded with at minimum equivalent DPS to whoever the number 1 spot is.

No I'm not denying it, I'm just sizing it up. because the considerations that statics make are also these: am I interested in having the ress or having more damage? So clearly having a utility is an advantage, but also having more damage it is. If the blm had the same damage as the rdm then I would agree with you but it doesn't.

Yes and I think data shows us over time, they choose utility. Unless I am misunderstanding and I am happy to be corrected.

[CelestiCer]

waste of time/projection/assumptions - hypocrite.

Insulting me rather then tackling my points... I struck a nerve. And using " whataboutism " when it doesn't suit your narrative filled with canned arguments.

" 1. There is *no DPS argument*. I am no explicitly asking for DPS buffs. "
You are consistently stating that BLM does not feel worth playing. and would be worth playing if it had more DPS. You're searching for something BLM can get added with DPS or Utility or something as an extra unnecessary edge to fix a none-existing problem.

" 2. BLM is excluded in PF sometimes "
Victim mentality. Just get good. I gave RDM example of P8S week 1 prog because that's been the last time Job exclusion happened in PF that BLM didn't to an equal degree experience, not then and not now. PS: not meeting an ilvl requirement is not exclusive to BLM, just fyi.

" 3. Reaper is more popular because it does good enough damage, has party utility/limited healing, and ease of play *llike almost every class other than BLM*. "
Again Victimhood and BLM is the top Caster in DPS and competes with the top Melee in DPS, it's just factually false.

" 4. I never said BLM was suffering... "
You got quite the narrative going to make me think you do honestly...

" 5. If BLM could get more utility, how about this ? Lower the DPS, I don't care."
Extra utility will not make BLM more desirable, it goes against their Job identity which has been Selfish DPS and it's not going to solve whatever issue you think BLM has in your mind.

If BLM had a decent enough edge in DPS, that alone would be the motivator to play it.

TLDR: Victim Mentality.
Complaining about the top statistics that you probably haven't reached to even comment on with own experience. Like complaining about 1 race car being faster then another when you yourself don't even use the same car to race with. It's pointless. Yet wrapping it all up as a canned argument to spew the narrative that BLM is missing... something in your mind... and then insulting players when they give you facts/stats/links... I don't believe BLM is missing any DPS and buffing them just ruins the balance we have.

If only players spend more time in-game improving themselves vs complaining about the none-existing lack of performance their Job supposedly does on the Forums =u=;;

[Turtledeluxe]

Insulting me rather then tackling my points

Learned it from your jaded posts.

You are consistently stating that BLM does not feel worth playing.

Yes, that's different from saying it absolutely has to have a buff. I'm glad you finally understand. Now, once again stop being so overdramatic with the wording. When I say it isn't worth playing, I am obviously referring to what TC asked in their original post. What is the point of a glass cannon that isn't the top DPS? They have all these trade offs, but not top DPS. You keep saying "well they're top DPS in caster" -- that's meaningless.

Victim mentality. Just get good.

I've never personally be excluded and you should honestly be forum banned for your needless antagonism of newer players. You are one of the reasons people leave this game, undoubtedly. You are a horrible representation of the player base.

You got quite the narrative going to make me think you do honestly...

No you just like to start fights and don't think-- that's your problem overall. I have had perfectly fine dialogue with everyone but you. Sit down.

When I tell you directly I am not just asking for DPS buffs and you willfully disregard that and proceed to insult me further, you're just proving your own ignorance. My posts are all there for people to read. I haven't claimed I have all the answers and I am open to several different things. If you don't think there's a problem then leave the thread otherwise whya re you still here

Extra utility will not make BLM more desirable, it goes against their Job identity which has been Selfish DPS and it's not going to solve whatever issue you think BLM has in your mind.

And they are a selfish dps, just one that requires way more effort than its counterpart (Samurai).

Complaining about the top statistics that you probably haven't reached to even comment on with own experience.

I'm not complaining about the leaderboards. I am complaining that BLM feels redundant and there's little incentive to play it. That's the theme of the topic. Pay attention.

I think it's best you go on ignore actually, so continue garbling my posts into your own narrative to your hearts content. I don't care. I'm not talking to you anyway.