There is so much to do in this game that...

[Saraide]

snip

Grinding for the sake of grinding isnt content. It's just rehashing content. Delubrum was interesting the first few times. It was no longer interesting after my fifth relic. I didnt say I was glad content got axed from the game, I said I'm glad when grinds get axed from the design philosophy. If exploratory zones can not exist without meaningless grinding then the conclusion we should draw from that is that it's just not good content but meaningless chores. You say the new deep dungeon is bad because it's just HoH copy pasted, that's what relics fundamentally achieve with everything they touch. If zones like bozja and eureka can not be distanced from relics and instead stand on their own feet as fun content to do then they are a failed concept.

This is a fundamental problem I have with most of the recent posts lamenting the lack of content: A lot of focus seems to go into demanding grinding content but very little thought is put into wanting that content to be fun on its own. Someone responded to me telling me that the current complainers are uninterested in content being fun on its own. I hope they are wrong.

[Shinkuno]

Grinding for the sake of grinding isnt content. It's just rehashing content. Delubrum was interesting the first few times. It was no longer interesting after my fifth relic. I didnt say I was glad content got axed from the game, I said I'm glad when grinds get axed from the design philosophy. If exploratory zones can not exist without meaningless grinding then the conclusion we should draw from that is that it's just not good content but meaningless chores. You say the new deep dungeon is bad because it's just HoH copy pasted, that's what relics fundamentally achieve with everything they touch. If zones like bozja and eureka can not be distanced from relics and instead stand on their own feet as fun content to do then they are a failed concept.

This is a fundamental problem I have with most of the recent posts lamenting the lack of content: A lot of focus seems to go into demanding grinding content but very little thought is put into wanting that content to be fun on its own. Someone responded to me telling me that the current complainers are uninterested in content being fun on its own. I hope they are wrong.

Because content that lasts 5minutes will never be fun. You said it yourself, you had fun for the first few relics despite being a grind. If you want more, tough luck you grind more even if its not enjoyable anymore. We shouldnt remove grinds just so people can have all relics in a day then go back to afk

[Ath192]

Grinding for the sake of grinding isnt content. It's just rehashing content. Delubrum was interesting the first few times. It was no longer interesting after my fifth relic. I didnt say I was glad content got axed from the game, I said I'm glad when grinds get axed from the design philosophy. If exploratory zones can not exist without meaningless grinding then the conclusion we should draw from that is that it's just not good content but meaningless chores. You say the new deep dungeon is bad because it's just HoH copy pasted, that's what relics fundamentally achieve with everything they touch. If zones like bozja and eureka can not be distanced from relics and instead stand on their own feet as fun content to do then they are a failed concept.

This is a fundamental problem I have with most of the recent posts lamenting the lack of content: A lot of focus seems to go into demanding grinding content but very little thought is put into wanting that content to be fun on its own. Someone responded to me telling me that the current complainers are uninterested in content being fun on its own. I hope they are wrong.

We have a poster here called Gemina or something that had to make up their own grind because the game didn’t give her one. Not too long ago she posted that she finished it. To me this is irrefutable proof some people do consider it content.

And to me it’s pretty sad seeing people do that. Not because they are making their own fun but because the game should have content for them. Like the ancestry of MMOs is riddled with content like this so isn’t a bit plausible some of those players still enjoy that stuff?

I understand it’s not your thing. But it is content.

I am personally interested in content being fun on its own. But I have no idea if others would find my fun to be their fun. So it stands to reason to put out content of all types, including grinds to see if people do them or not.

The relic is irrelevant. People would do Eureka and Bozja for a nice coat or suit of armor. There does need to be cool rewards at the end though. If anything we’ve learned that from Criterion.