There is so much to do in this game that...

[Ath192]

Treasure maps seem like prime sunday night gaming content but there is little need to make a PF about it. I assume most FCs and statics that do treasure runs dont actively search for people in PF as even just 3 people is no issue at all.

I dont have an issue with exploratory zones on principle but they seem very much linked to the idea of old school mmo grinding for the sake of it. I'm always glad when grinds like that get axed from the design philosophy.

What other types of content make sense to be PF'd that arent savage?

1. Criterion was a good start, but its execution in particular regarding its rewards turned it into a flub.

2. Island Sanctuary could've implemented some multiplayer/coop aspects to it that requires people helping out each other? I feel like PF would post listings for this and the casual base enjoying it. Imagine hosting boat/raft races around the island that increase the islands fame and so therefore your products get some cowry boosts when you rank up in fame. In turn, using island materials you could build and customize your own race boat and when people group up a random one is selected from a party of 3 or something. Each person is in charge of something like, rowing, steering, and sail control. A bit like sea of thieves. Once you have a premade you can queue and if there are no other premades you go against NPCs. Maybe a small evolution to chocobo racing. Anyways, this is completely made up, but just stuff like that.

3. I feel Eureka Orthos would have way more party listings if it weren't another clone of HoH. I see some people gathered but nowhere near the crowds I saw for previous DDs when they were not as tired of a design. But something like this would be good. Just not when its such a blatant clone. I've previously suggested more open air deep dungeons like forests/deserts/even oceans and archipelagos where your ship advances to the next set of islands every 10 levels with some immersive cutscenes and there's a few more activities than just random assortments of mobs.

Like:
Objective/treasure retrieval before the timer runs out
Ship repairs to escape as mobs get increasingly aggressive and buffed with each minute that passes
Discovering a tomb in the desert with more creative traps that can separate your group
Decision making that affects pathing

and finally I don't get glad when content gets axed. For example I don't go for crafting relics, just not my thing, but some people do enjoy grinding that out. And thats fine. There is a market for old school MMO stuff. Like there are people that do enjoy it so I don't see why not throw them a bone too. I guarantee you that for those people, if they threw a relic out there that was gorgeous but had no stats and it was locked behind an exploration zone and a huge grind they would be happy doing it.

[Saraide]

snip

Grinding for the sake of grinding isnt content. It's just rehashing content. Delubrum was interesting the first few times. It was no longer interesting after my fifth relic. I didnt say I was glad content got axed from the game, I said I'm glad when grinds get axed from the design philosophy. If exploratory zones can not exist without meaningless grinding then the conclusion we should draw from that is that it's just not good content but meaningless chores. You say the new deep dungeon is bad because it's just HoH copy pasted, that's what relics fundamentally achieve with everything they touch. If zones like bozja and eureka can not be distanced from relics and instead stand on their own feet as fun content to do then they are a failed concept.

This is a fundamental problem I have with most of the recent posts lamenting the lack of content: A lot of focus seems to go into demanding grinding content but very little thought is put into wanting that content to be fun on its own. Someone responded to me telling me that the current complainers are uninterested in content being fun on its own. I hope they are wrong.

[Shinkuno]

Grinding for the sake of grinding isnt content. It's just rehashing content. Delubrum was interesting the first few times. It was no longer interesting after my fifth relic. I didnt say I was glad content got axed from the game, I said I'm glad when grinds get axed from the design philosophy. If exploratory zones can not exist without meaningless grinding then the conclusion we should draw from that is that it's just not good content but meaningless chores. You say the new deep dungeon is bad because it's just HoH copy pasted, that's what relics fundamentally achieve with everything they touch. If zones like bozja and eureka can not be distanced from relics and instead stand on their own feet as fun content to do then they are a failed concept.

This is a fundamental problem I have with most of the recent posts lamenting the lack of content: A lot of focus seems to go into demanding grinding content but very little thought is put into wanting that content to be fun on its own. Someone responded to me telling me that the current complainers are uninterested in content being fun on its own. I hope they are wrong.

Because content that lasts 5minutes will never be fun. You said it yourself, you had fun for the first few relics despite being a grind. If you want more, tough luck you grind more even if its not enjoyable anymore. We shouldnt remove grinds just so people can have all relics in a day then go back to afk

[Ath192]

Grinding for the sake of grinding isnt content. It's just rehashing content. Delubrum was interesting the first few times. It was no longer interesting after my fifth relic. I didnt say I was glad content got axed from the game, I said I'm glad when grinds get axed from the design philosophy. If exploratory zones can not exist without meaningless grinding then the conclusion we should draw from that is that it's just not good content but meaningless chores. You say the new deep dungeon is bad because it's just HoH copy pasted, that's what relics fundamentally achieve with everything they touch. If zones like bozja and eureka can not be distanced from relics and instead stand on their own feet as fun content to do then they are a failed concept.

This is a fundamental problem I have with most of the recent posts lamenting the lack of content: A lot of focus seems to go into demanding grinding content but very little thought is put into wanting that content to be fun on its own. Someone responded to me telling me that the current complainers are uninterested in content being fun on its own. I hope they are wrong.

We have a poster here called Gemina or something that had to make up their own grind because the game didn’t give her one. Not too long ago she posted that she finished it. To me this is irrefutable proof some people do consider it content.

And to me it’s pretty sad seeing people do that. Not because they are making their own fun but because the game should have content for them. Like the ancestry of MMOs is riddled with content like this so isn’t a bit plausible some of those players still enjoy that stuff?

I understand it’s not your thing. But it is content.

I am personally interested in content being fun on its own. But I have no idea if others would find my fun to be their fun. So it stands to reason to put out content of all types, including grinds to see if people do them or not.

The relic is irrelevant. People would do Eureka and Bozja for a nice coat or suit of armor. There does need to be cool rewards at the end though. If anything we’ve learned that from Criterion.