Need advice: static imploding because of cheater.

[Midareyukki]

In short if someone does not think they are cheating no amount of stressing they are cheating will change their mind. So why get upset trying to convince a person of something they do not see either due to willful ignorance or simply plain old ignorance.

Pretty much this.

Sure, SE says the use of any third party tool is prohibited, but eventually they had to come out and very loosely say "There's a gray area, and we don't want people to go around in a report-war". Because they realistically don't care. Not because "omg cheating is bad", but because even Square Enix themselves don't see certain things as cheating. No matter how their very loose TOS says it's not legal.

Teamcraft is a third party tool.
14Angler is a third party tool.
XIVGlamour is a third party tool.
Gamerescape is a third party tool.
The FF14 Wiki is a third party tool.
So's anything posted by the Balance Discord.
Heck, using Discord is technically considered one too.
Youtube guides for raids are a third party tool.
Shaders are a third party tool.
Parsers are third party tools.

Unless you're either harassing people with these things, being blatant about their use and visibly associating your character's name with it, or specifically trying to get an upper hand in content by skipping mechanics or removing challenge via hacks, they won't see it as cheating. Violating the ToS, probably? But cheating? Not necessarily.

[Pixieh]

Teamcraft is a third party tool.
14Angler is a third party tool.
XIVGlamour is a third party tool.
Gamerescape is a third party tool.
The FF14 Wiki is a third party tool.
So's anything posted by the Balance Discord.
Heck, using Discord is technically considered one too.

They're not against the TOS though unlike the cheats that are being discussed here. So what's your point?

[Saraide]

They're not against the TOS though unlike the cheats that are being discussed here. So what's your point?

What makes them not against TOS?

[Pixieh]

What makes them not against TOS?

Like I said before; I don't educate the willfully ignorant.

[Saraide]

Like I said before; I don't educate the willfully ignorant.

Just feelycraft then, that's what I expected.

[Pixieh]

Just feelycraft then, that's what I expected.

Urgh fine. Just for you.

IF those sites would be against the TOS you could bet your lovely behind that SE would have gone after them and forced them to shut down (and yes, they can very much do that since sites like teamcraft use their assets and copyrights to work with.)
They don't do that.

Now count two and two together. Voila!

[Saraide]

Urgh fine. Just for you.

IF those sites would be against the TOS you could bet your lovely behind that SE would have gone after them and forced them to shut down (and yes, they can very much do that since sites like teamcraft use their assets and copyrights to work with.)
They don't do that.

Now count two and two together. Voila!

Their enforcement doesnt change what is written in the TOS. FFLogs is also alive and well. Discord is not a website but actual software that impacts how you play. I'm glad you agree though that strictly what is written in the TOS is not the final word on the matter and we need a more nuanced approach. Instead of going by strictly the word of the law, we should be going by the spirit of the law and that requires interpretation and critical thinking.

[Midareyukki]

They're not against the TOS though unlike the cheats that are being discussed here. So what's your point?

The point is that there is a difference between calling certain tools "against the ToS" and "cheats". And as far as I've seen, the distinction really loves to shift between people, even within this thread.

Or, you know maybe read the actual whole post rather than just cutting out the part that irked you to understand the point.

Plenty of people have already stated that they consider those tools to be cheats. Others don't, like you. Even, again, in this thread. And even actual cheats like zoomhacks and stuff that lets you faze through walls or speedhacks have people going like "Oh they're not cheats!".

The ultimate point is that it doesn't matter what anyone's definition is. What matters is what SE considers cheating or not.

Like I said before; I don't educate the willfully ignorant.

Considering you missed the point of my post despite it being cleared in the paragraphs you skipped, and failed to read the rest of the conversation leading to it, I'd consider you an ignorant party as well. Please drop the attitude.

[Pixieh]

What matters is what SE considers cheating or not.

Exactly. Not sure where you got the impression that anyone has been arguing against that. If you use a third party programm that hooks into the game, changes the actual game (whether its shading or zooming or what not) then its against the TOS. The points you made that I quoted do not do that. Ergo, they're not cheating.