Let's redefine "damage taxes"

[Rithy255]

DRK has 2 jobs in this game Dark Knight and Reaper(discount FFXI DRK) and they both do good DPS and DRK does the highest DPS of all the Tanks.

Putzing around with nonsense like range tax and raise tax doesn't really solve the issue. If DPS is low utility needs to be higher. If utility is low then you need higher DPS and I feel that if melee is doing as much as they are then casters which are typically fragile yet strong in every other entry of the series need to do higher damage overall.

I don't think casters or any job should be within 1% of each other either. Each job class should have it's own pros and cons that sets itself apart from their peers.

But that's not gonna happen unless they implement the success of jobs in PvP. And it probably won't happen because they've designed a game where only damage matters and nothing else.

Need to prog to learn mechs then take a RDM. Know the fight and can farm clears? Take BLM. Want a in between option? Take SMN.

And I think what will happen unfortunately is at some point every class will have a Healer DPS rotation.

I agree with you, I I like how the casters have different niches makes the game more interesting, if anything I'd want more utility.

My main point the solution to "job balance" isn't to make one job such as BLM completely useless as it's niche is to do "more damage" but making the casters too close will result in RDM/SMN being took so much to the point where BLM will be a redundant job, if it's niche is going to be "more damage less utility" it needs to actually have a significant difference (Now might be too much, but casters are too low in general). Even then I'm sure if you let BLM have some room to be good enough at damage it wouldn't be 100% restricted from prog, heck if you made double caster viable BLM/RDM comps might actually be really good, right now the problem is that "free slot" is really just a melee slot, I'd even want more utility on Red mage as it would fit the job (aslong as it's got a decent enough damage output, but thats my personal thoughts).

I think in the future at least now where we are heading we're going to have no "niche" or any illusion of choice jobs will practically be "reskins" with slightly different rotations the way things are heading which isn't fun.

[MagiusNecros]

As for the raise issue the devs can take notes from themselves.

https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Angel_Whisper

Just give everyone a role action(call it Phoenix Down lol) that is a Raise that's instant and has a 5 minute CD. Wow amazing. If you need more raise then you have 2 healers and SMN/RDM(sometimes BLU) to pick people up.

I mean you could argue giving BLM a raise on the metric that RDM, SMN and even BLU all have a raise spell.

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But given the current new jobs and soon to come reworks of PLD/AST/DRG you can look at Reaper for "modern job design". It's pretty disgusting to look at on a internal level.

And the thing with casters right now is in terms of damage you have something like this...

Melee Kings(So SAM/MNK)
|
Black Mage
|
Other Melee
|
|
|
|
RDM/SMN

Like huh.

And the phys ranged have a whole separate issue between MCH being middle of the road with pretty much no utility other then Tactician(lol defensive) and Peloton(lol) and BRD/DNC having overall low damage but a lot of damage buffs. Specifically DNC.

And all that utility stacks up so their deceptive low damage is actually quite high which puts MCH in a awkward place.

[Rithy255]

Well I'm just going to see how they can change PLD, so I'll either switch to GNB and have fun being a actual tank and doing gud damage, somewhat "fun" rotation (very debatable but better then drk/war), or the rework wont be "too bad" I'm mainly just hoping they don't mess up it completely, mixed feelings because I want the job to actually be great, I want it to have its niche.

Funny I think PLD's defensives and utility are likely the least appealing part for me (I do like them but I don't think they're great) I would want them changed/buffed, but its rotation is so much fun to me, but the only changes will be to it's rotation.

At this point future job design is going to be, filling up your gauge and spending it on "burst" instead of having some burst jobs, some sustained jobs some dot jobs ect, raid buffs being 120 is really destroying any semblance of even rotational diversity, we need old trick attack, 90 second raid buffs, abilities on 3 minutes, we should be wanting raid buffs to actually be a bit more diverse... right now they're awful they feel completely meaningless when every raid buff is the same.

Even if they want to go with a "burst meta" can we at least go to 60 bursts? they're at least more fun then bursting once every two minutes...

[MagiusNecros]

If they want burst only jobs in their game I'd like some jobs to have 30 and 60 second bursts so you have jobs that have a big burst but other jobs have little bursts all the time.

I'm still hoping 7.0 they come out with a DoT job(which opposes their burst design) where party buff windows aren't the focus but sustained damage is.

I very much miss 3.0/4.0 Super Arcanist.

[Dyvid]

"Range Tax" was a concept designed back in the day when Physical Range DPS could run/gun along with restore MP and TP then later increased raid DPS. It was a time when Melee DPS had to move out of the hit pocket and casters actually had to cast spells. That concept is dead whether the Devs want to admit it or not. It died the moment they want to design a DPS scale from pure DPS to buff DPS. Now MCH is a walking contradiction; it's supposed to be a pure dps but can't because ranged dps is supposed to run/gun and provide raid DPS.

Before anything they must fix the battle design and hammer out what Roles are actually supposed to play like, and they damn well shouldn't add another caster or ranged dps until that happens.

As far as the whole raise tax, that is an easy fix is Yoshi P wouldn't draw a silly line in the sand. Remove raise from SMN and RDM and make it a Role ability for Casters.

Also don't get too hung up on what a job did in previous single players game. I used RDM as a main healer but you can't do that in FFXIV. There are plenty of other spells they can have that would give them "icon" white and black magic.

[Raikai]

I mean you could argue giving BLM a raise on the metric that RDM, SMN and even BLU all have a raise spell.

Just a funny thought that a Raise spell on BLM, imagine being able to rez 4 people at once with a combo of Triplecast and Swiftcast! Obviously at the expense of obliterating their dps, but hey.

On a serious note, I like the ideaa of Phoenix Downs, either being a role action or a consumable like pot. It would turn SMN and RDM raises more like a job quirk like Curing Waltz rather than a dire staple for some prog parties.

Currently I feel that the only thing they can do with Machinist for the remainder of Endwalker is to just increase their rdps to more or less match the other 2 aiming and add 2 utility actions and that maybe can be a physical mitigator + small hot (so analogous to mbarrier) and the other thing can be more of a niche utility, maybe a single target version of Sch's sprint.

I honestly wish they had more things to explore for defensive utility, rather than just mitigation, healing/shielding and movement, but I'm not sure if the combat design would allow. I always thought that would be neat if some kind of utility (a healer's tool maybe?) could, for example, cut x seconds from the brink of death debuff. They could also make MP be more meaningful for healers and re-introduce utilities to help that.

[MagiusNecros]

Defensive utilities could be a stance that turns on a 20 yalm aura that provides a raid buff as long if you are near the player. Like Cover but AoE and not a tether and it provides something.

I think a utility for DPS with no support options should be a big ability that resets all your CDs and tops off your gauges. I mean Manafic on RDM used to reset CorpsaCorp and Displacement but now it doesn't?

Or a utility for any job honestly is a skill that fills the LB gauge faster.

And you got quite a few good ideas for utilities in PvP to pull from too that aren't implemented in PvE.

[Aikaal]

Imagine actually typing out Vercure like it matters. And Embolden is merely RDM damage, and Verraise is worthless in an optimal setting...so what...Barrier? Yeah not a compelling case especially when RDM is factually harder than MCH. Try again

Imagine not know Vercure being useful in fights like DSR. Imagine being a one trick RDM player and not knowing that.



When you healer appreciates when you Vercure during downtime the MT because there's been some scuff situations that may happen and I can always use a free instant cast.

Regarding raise. THey either keep it and the tax remains or they take it off and put it as a role action with a CD. I don't see other solutions.

[SaberMaxwell]

In fairness, the places vercure is useful are fairly niche and not entirely necessary. https://www.fflogs.com/reports/NJnFQ...ling&source=86

You and I both have overheal of about 55% and in I cast vercure about half the number of times you did. I won't argue it's not good for the situations in which it shines, and relative to MCH it actually exists but 9/10 vercure is probably useful as not a ton more than mere niche.

[MagiusNecros]

Vercure is actually useful to get your quick raises off. Doubly so when you can Vercure, Swift and do 2 raises in succession. And I'm sure the Healer appreciates some of the stress being taken of or if the healer dies and you help them heal back to full and they can save their panic heals for something else.