Let's redefine "damage taxes"

[FireMage]

I shouldn't snap either, I'm sorry. I agree with you 100%, and I believe you and I were of the same accord about jobs being easy until the point of optimization.

I should maybe just step away from this thread while FireMage is turning this into a pointless measuring contest between jobs.

I'm merely stating what proper balance would be, which is something that would benefit basically everyone

[Aikaal]

Some people say casual shouldn't speak when they haven't even cleared DSR or they have just cleared P8S this week lol.

What is the definition of a casual and what's the definition of who has the right to speak on OF?

Short answer, anyone can talk on OF. I mean, you do.

In all seriousness, only people with proper knowledge with a background check should be talking regarding balance. What I mean is;
- Does the player have cleared ultimates (big bonus) and savage content on time?
- Does the player properly know the role he's talking about? (You'd be surprise how many people comes to OF "claiming" to voice true balance when they only play 1 job since Stormblood and it is of course much more harder to play than anything they haven't played.

Difficulty is subjective but one thing remains the absolute truth. Any job because very easy to play after countless hours on the job in high end difficulty. There's a few people who do manage to clear high end duty and they are legitimately average to mediocre players. They will always log grey no matter what and they can't seem to be able to play their job and their job is "hard". I have a brother who I raided with who couldn't play Warrior optimally. He just never cared enough but also he isn't on OF to say nonsense.

Then you have the other kind of player, the one who makes everything he touch looks so easy and good. They just know exactly how to optimize and play the job well. Great. They'll also say that pretty much any job is brain dead.

Objectively, on the caster role, BLM takes more time to learn than RDM/SMN. Just by looking on casters in term of complexity;
BLM : https://www.thebalanceffxiv.com/jobs...dvanced-guide/
SMN:

RDM: https://www.thebalanceffxiv.com/jobs...dvanced-guide/

You can sum it up by saying BLM has many options to optimize. To the point of stupidity. Summoner is impossible to optimize due to the nature of the job. RDM has some optimization. But I'll be real. I don't need some "advanced" guide to tell me it's best to embolden on a Verflare/Verholy. I sorta figured it out by doing basic mats of 12.7s+7.5s under a 20s buff window. Same for triple melee combo, you want to pot on Scorch. So with both up, Embolden > Verflare > Pot > Scorch is the most optimal gain. Same goes for Contre Sixte and Fleche. If they are up and you're like 5 seconds from buff windows. Unless you know it'll cost an extra Contre Sixte/Fleche at the end, you might want to hold them on rebuff window. But that optimization only works if you do speedruns and nobody is bringing a RDM for speedruns :') Also, I guess people can figure it out but I pot on 2/8 minutes if possible because 0/6 is really bad on RDM. Having 1 melee combo under a pot instead of 3 is a big oof.

You know, there's an amazing system in game on paper but is not so great on reality. It's call the Mentor role. There are a few great mentors and then there's the ones that are mentors for the burger king crown and they brag about it. "I'm Mentor and I say you pull it you tank it. I'm right, you're wrong because I'm Mentor."

[Zsolen]

RDM was never difficult and it never will be. It, only with SAM, came into existence during the dumbing down of the game. HW versions of DRK, AST, and MCH were all very different. But you know this already. So why pretend it is super complex?

In all seriousness, only people with proper knowledge with a background check should be talking regarding balance. What I mean is;
- Does the player have cleared ultimates (big bonus) and savage content on time?
- Does the player properly know the role he's talking about? (You'd be surprise how many people comes to OF "claiming" to voice true balance when they only play 1 job since Stormblood and it is of course much more harder to play than anything they haven't played.
"

Job changes affect everyone, not just those who have time or desire to play savage/ultimates. It's just that the greatest concentration of need is in that area, so it is the area that should have the focus. It is not the correct course of actions to speak only for oneself, but to try and balance the game for everyone.

Anyone that believes that only certain people can talk at the table are actual elitists and elitists are generally overcompensating for something. The same is true in the pvp world.

[Aikaal]

RDM was never difficult and it never will be. It, only with SAM, came into existence during the dumbing down of the game. HW versions of DRK, AST, and MCH were all very different. But you know this already. So why pretend it is super complex?



Job changes affect everyone, not just those who have time or desire to play savage/ultimates. It's just that the greatest concentration of need is in that area, so it is the area that should have the focus. It is not the correct course of actions to speak only for oneself, but to try and balance the game for everyone.

Anyone that believes that only certain people can talk at the table are actual elitists and elitists are generally overcompensating for something. The same is true in the pvp world.

Yeah, you're right. QoL is perfectly fine but if a player who doesn't do savage says something about balance and buffing/nerfing damage of a job, there's a pretty big issue. Only raiders care for that. I was also referring a fool that everyone has figured out he's a fool but I don't want to quote him anymore because he ain't worth the effort to get a troll reply.

[Zsolen]

Yeah, you're right. QoL is perfectly fine but if a player who doesn't do savage says something about balance and buffing/nerfing damage of a job, there's a pretty big issue. Only raiders care for that. I was also referring a fool that everyone has figured out he's a fool but I don't want to quote him anymore because he ain't worth the effort to get a troll reply.

You really don't understand that people want others to have a good game too? More so if they share the same job.

You don't even have to raid to pick up what jobs have what issues. It's not a difficult concept to grasp.

On the flip side, someone could watch pvp matches and start to see what job changes are needed and outside perspectives are often more needed than not.

[Aikaal]

You really don't understand that people want others to have a good game too? More so if they share the same job.

You don't even have to raid to pick up what jobs have what issues. It's not a difficult concept to grasp.

On the flip side, someone could watch pvp matches and start to see what job changes are needed and outside perspectives are often more needed than not.

If you're a casual and don't raid, then you probably have a pretty fantastic game. You wouldn't care about damage, you'd play the job you like. You may dislike stuff they've done like removing Kaiten and voice your concerns. As a balance stand point, removing Kaiten doesn't matter as long SAM still performs as it used to. Same goes for the rework of SMN & MNK. MNK is blessed because they perform really well. SMN is cursed because they really killed any creativity to optimize. A casual wouldn't care about that. All he sees is how cool he is to be the Ultima Weapon.

I've seen really bad players and some are my rl friends. I can't stress enough I know a Bard main who doesn't cast a single song. You think he really cares about his damage? He is having fun but he's smart enough to understand his opinion isn't needed in OF because he has no desire for that kind of stuff.

[Aurora428]

SE if you're reading this, please understand that this is less of a "debate" and just one person arguing with literally everyone else.

Balance the DPS with each other without regard to role.

[Ransu]

SAM optimization is super easy lol. Its a loop that revolves completely around a 1 minute (higabana) and 2 minutes (ishikoten) and requires only 1 filler if there's no downtime to maintain that loop with very little drift until about 9 minutes into the fight where meikyo stacks start to catch up (if you're going by the 2.14s gcd build). By FireMages terrible logic SAM should also be bottom tier dps.

[Mithron]

I think it's important to note though that even casual players who don't complete 4th tier Savages or Ultimates are still impacted by such DPS disparities though because that player could still be playing optimally with the gear available to them rotationwise, but especially if they're in PF, will face a lot more enrages/wipes that they otherwise would not face if they were playing a better DPS job instead. For example, it feels a lot worse for me to play RDM right now in Barb ex than SAM even if I like playing RDM more and know we probably won't hit enrage, simply because I'm aware that if I played SAM, we'd have a much faster clear speed and less chance of enraging instead of RDM. That eats away at your soul and definitely lessens the enjoyment of the game, even acting as a mental deterrent to want to play some jobs.

[FireMage]

Imagine not realizing that MCH right now is outright being blocked from the majority of PF's.

First off citation required. 2nd off proper balance would buff its DPS by hundreds and the gap would be around 1k DPS with current numbers

I don't think you shouldn't speak because you're casual, I think you shouldn't speak because you're always wrong. Just giving you a taste of your own logical fallacies.

You never explained in great detail why DNC is harder than MCH. "Closed position changes" and "react to RNG" are not harder than MCH, so explain more.

I'm not wrong though, nor am I using fallacies. Also imagine trying to denounce me as a casual, the idea is beyond hilarious. Also I have gone into multiple reasons why. You should actually read the posts in your own topic instead of impotently raging