Release a 16 person 4 hour long dungeon

[Delsus]

AV was killable with the proper abilities to lock out most of his powers. PW was killable with necro BLU.... i'd say PW was harder til the level jump.

It was worked out that you had about 0.2 secs to react to lock out his 2hrs, if one person was off (paticularly a WHM or RDM) it would take forever or insta wipe, I have heard of ppl getting AV to 2% then Benediction, fun, and when he uses chainspell isnt it meteor spam? The devs said AV was the best mob they made, and if Tanaka was still incharge here, he would prolly make a grand return.

I really wouldn't mind 4hr raids they could have the best of the best gear that not even materia gear could beat for the hardcore crowd, it would be easily scalable with softcore and midcore raids and dungeons, which is the key, softcore content offers weaker gear, midcore is a little better and hardcore is the absolute best, take FFXI's relic gear, it cost over 200m or 2yrs never missing a Dynamis run to get, but it was worth it (thats before it was nerfed so anyone can get it) perhaps it was a little too much, but a similar system that takes atleast 6 months to get the best gear for the hardcores would be good.

No one would force you to do this, just if you felt more hardcore you can. Also on the crystal tower, I really hope its a Nyzul style raid, I loved Nyzul and if a similar raid was here I would live there

[Rydin]

I really wouldn't mind 4hr raids they could have the best of the best gear that not even materia gear could beat for the hardcore crowd, it would be easily scalable with softcore and midcore raids and dungeons, which is the key, softcore content offers weaker gear, midcore is a little better and hardcore is the absolute best, take FFXI's relic gear, it cost over 200m or 2yrs never missing a Dynamis run to get, but it was worth it (thats before it was nerfed so anyone can get it) perhaps it was a little too much, but a similar system that takes atleast 6 months to get the best gear for the hardcores would be good.

You actually bring up a good question... something I was pondering

Should a 4 hour raid give the best gear outright...
Have a low drop rate of the best gear
or some system where you have to do this a few times a week for weeks or months to work up to the best gear?

what say you all?

[Delsus]

You actually bring up a good question... something I was pondering

Should a 4 hour raid give the best gear outright...
Have a low drop rate of the best gear
or some system where you have to do this a few times a week for weeks or months to work up to the best gear?

what say you all?

I think it should after a few months to give hardcores a long term goal, from reading this a 4hr dungeon would mainly be the hardcores anyway so they would not complain, if you want the best of the best gear you need the time sinks imo.

[Rydin]

I think it should after a few months to give hardcores a long term goal, from reading this a 4hr dungeon would mainly be the hardcores anyway so they would not complain, if you want the best of the best gear you need the time sinks imo.

A 4 hour dungeon... 3 times a week for 2 months... I'd do it...
What should be the difficulty level of the dungeon in relation to the ones we have now?
on par with AV/CC? harder?

[Jinko]

You actually bring up a good question... something I was pondering

Should a 4 hour raid give the best gear outright...
Have a low drop rate of the best gear
or some system where you have to do this a few times a week for weeks or months to work up to the best gear?

what say you all?

I like collecting tokens or U/U currency to buy my gear, nothing like Relic that's too hardcore.

[Delsus]

A 4 hour dungeon... 3 times a week for 2 months... I'd do it...
What should be the difficulty level of the dungeon in relation to the ones we have now?
on par with AV/CC? harder?

Harder, much much harder, so it will take (taking into account the more hardcore crowd still) atleast 2 months to get a stratagy to beat it, with multiple bosses all requiring a unique stratagy to beat, the armoury system really opens it up to unique stratagies to multiple bosses in dungeons/raids, one boss might need one each DD, 2WHMs and a tank, whereas for another a specific DD could be a liability kind of how MNK/PUG is a liability for Ifrit with sears so your MNK/PUG is required to change before the next boss.

This however would need actions to be ready when you switch class/job (please add this) or change as soon as the previous boss has been killed.

I like collecting tokens or U/U currency to buy my gear, nothing like Relic that's too hardcore.

I said that the 200m+ or 2yrs to get relic was a little too hardcore, I would like to see 2-6 months to get the best of the best gear.

I really hope this idea gets to the devs

[Mychael]

I like collecting tokens or U/U currency to buy my gear, nothing like Relic that's too hardcore.

What if the weapons you earned while "progressing" were still good. Just an example (with 5 "stages"), stage 1 should was meh (available for cheap), stage 2 an "average" weapon (1-2 weeks), stage 3 up with the blue dungeon drops (~1 month), stage 4 about equal to a "lucky" materia'd weapon or even slightly better (and include crafted parts, so the crafters don't get cut out; also should take ~2-3 months, depending on just how "hardcore" you are), and stage 5 (~4-6 months) was slightly better than any available weapon (also with crafted parts).

A 4 hour dungeon... 3 times a week for 2 months... I'd do it...
What should be the difficulty level of the dungeon in relation to the ones we have now?
on par with AV/CC? harder?

Definitely harder, but not in a grind-y way. I like how CC requires two separate groups to work together; i'd like to see that play a part in this long dungeon, though not necessarily the ultra-sensitive "kill at same time" objective; maybe like I said in another thread, with the two parties choosing left/right and having to complete up to a certain point in their "path" before the others could progress (should take roughly the same amount of time for both paths unless an error; neither party should be waiting too long). Bosses should be more difficult, again not in higher HP and stronger attacks, but I think some "phases" would be good. Yeah, Batraal's weapons glow and ifrit rages, but I mean like you defeat the first form of a boss and the next one shows up, with completely different strategy required. More "environmental" moves that you have to dodge help make the fight more interesting, but they shouldn't be the only difficult part of the fight (i.e. Ifrit's eruptions). Also something I'd like to point out is that the final room of a dungeon doesn't have to be a single boss with a few little mobs to harass the DD. Especially with 16 people, you could have two bosses, a boss that summons smaller bosses (Kirin), many small bosses that work together (Moogle), two bosses that loose aggro and run toward each other to form a much harder boss--there are so many possibilities that SE could explore rather than just high HP and strong attacks.

[Rydin]

Harder, much much harder, so it will take (taking into account the more hardcore crowd still) atleast 2 months to get a stratagy to beat it, with multiple bosses all requiring a unique stratagy to beat, the armoury system really opens it up to unique stratagies to multiple bosses in dungeons/raids, one boss might need one each DD, 2WHMs and a tank, whereas for another a specific DD could be a liability kind of how MNK/PUG is a liability for Ifrit with sears so your MNK/PUG is required to change before the next boss.

I like that... that reminds me of a thread I had that talked about having special objectives in a boss fight that had incaps that really played heavily into the fight (Winnable without the incap... but so hard that people would really try for them)
and combos/battle regimen playing into the incap system... and certain jobs (Or job combinations in the BR) being required for certain incaps. So to totally incap a certain NM, you might need WAR, PLD, DRG, MNK and WHM
So you could go at it with all WHM, BLM, BRD and tank... but you'd just be making the fight harder on yourself since you can do all the optional stuff

Then you'd see this
WHM, WHM, BLM, BRD, WAR, DRG, MNK, PLD....

Which is so much better than
WHM, WHM, BRD, BRD, WAR, BLM, BLM, BLM

And there is also the added challenge of being able to be efficient with each class.. figuring out how to make PLD more efficient in the fight or keep MNK safe....
It would really open the strategy up...

[Mireille]

As you've possibly seen in some of my past postings, i'm a big fan of dungeon crawls. If your to have long expansive dungeons then i'm of the opinion that you would need areas to save your progress so it can be picked up again when you have time. I also would support an personal Progress save as apposed to a group save.

This is something similar to the way Nyzul isle worked. It was a 100 floor dungeon and every 5 floors you could essentially save your floor progress, and thereafter warp to that floor on subsequent runs. Every 20 floors you faced a boss fight that had to be cleared to save that floor and progress past it. If someone had a higher floor they could take you to that floor for a run, but you could not save that progress until you had beaten all the previous floors. Nyzul was a great casual event that only needed a party, could be done whenever you wanted as long as you had an assault tag to use, and was both fun and challenging. The drops were pimp too.

This type of content in XI wasn't really aimed at hard core players though, but content that built upon it (mythic weapons) was aimed at hardcores. The mythic questline was really great because it made you do clear everything from the aht urghan expansion to earn them. I want that type of content included in XIV.

The problem with dynamis in my mind was that it was aimed at the average player, but really only appealed to the hardcore player over the long haul. Dynamis would have sucked if it had save points though.

I want to stress that I do think this game needs events that are built along the same lines as dynamis/limbus/salvage/einherjar in order to be really great. That doesn't mean that the good stuff should only drop from that type of event. I want to see items like empyrean weapons, and I also want to see something like the mythic weapon questline.

I want to have some to earn with the gil I make when all my crafts are maxed out, and that also makes me full attack all the content in an expansion to qualify for. This was what made XI truly great, and it was that greatness that sets my level of expectation from SE. Sometimes I may seem critical of SE but its only because I have very high quality expectations from them. I will not settle for less than their best, and I don't think any other player should either. If I didn't think they could pull off the relaunch of this game I would not be playing it.

Yoshi has posted many times, particularly in his post 2.0 reveal world interview tour, that the plan is to cater to the casual, the mid-cores, AND the hard-cores.

That is the impression I have gotten, and I don't expect content aimed at anyone but the broadest base of players until 2.0 launches. This is just my personal opinion, but we are getting small areas like the strongholds or darkhold as a stopgap measure that puts stuff in the game for us to do while they work towards 2.0. I've resolved to be patient and to focus on the basics like getting all my craft gather jobs leveled instead of working towards gear that will be invalidated as soon as the cap is increased. I don't mean this as criticism, and some of those events like Cutter's Cry show the promise this game and the current dev team holds. They should put stuff like this in post 2.0 in addition to more challenging raids.

I cringe everytime I hear these events called raids or endgame though. We aren't even close to seeing endgame and real raids wouldn't force part of the shell to wait outside for their turn to join the event party to arrive. I'm in a shell now that probably won't do this type of event as a scheduled event after we get real raids. It will become more of a thing to do on free days when people are looking to do something casual.

[Rydin]

This is something similar to the way Nyzul isle worked. It was a 100 floor dungeon and every 5 floors you could essentially save your floor progress, and thereafter warp to that floor on subsequent runs. Every 20 floors you faced a boss fight that had to be cleared to save that floor and progress past it. If someone had a higher floor they could take you to that floor for a run, but you could not save that progress until you had beaten all the previous floors. Nyzul was a great casual event that only needed a party, could be done whenever you wanted as long as you had an assault tag to use, and was both fun and challenging. The drops were pimp too.

This type of content in XI wasn't really aimed at hard core players though, but content that built upon it (mythic weapons) was aimed at hardcores. The mythic questline was really great because it made you do clear everything from the aht urghan expansion to earn them. I want that type of content included in XIV.

The problem with dynamis in my mind was that it was aimed at the average player, but really only appealed to the hardcore player over the long haul. Dynamis would have sucked if it had save points though.

I want to stress that I do think this game needs events that are built along the same lines as dynamis/limbus/salvage/einherjar in order to be really great. That doesn't mean that the good stuff should only drop from that type of event. I want to see items like empyrean weapons, and I also want to see something like the mythic weapon questline.

I want to have some to earn with the gil I make when all my crafts are maxed out, and that also makes me full attack all the content in an expansion to qualify for. This was what made XI truly great, and it was that greatness that sets my level of expectation from SE. Sometimes I may seem critical of SE but its only because I have very high quality expectations from them. I will not settle for less than their best, and I don't think any other player should either. If I didn't think they could pull off the relaunch of this game I would not be playing it.



That is the impression I have gotten, and I don't expect content aimed at anyone but the broadest base of players until 2.0 launches. This is just my personal opinion, but we are getting small areas like the strongholds or darkhold as a stopgap measure that puts stuff in the game for us to do while they work towards 2.0. I've resolved to be patient and to focus on the basics like getting all my craft gather jobs leveled instead of working towards gear that will be invalidated as soon as the cap is increased. I don't mean this as criticism, and some of those events like Cutter's Cry show the promise this game and the current dev team holds. They should put stuff like this in post 2.0 in addition to more challenging raids.

I cringe everytime I hear these events called raids or endgame though. We aren't even close to seeing endgame and real raids wouldn't force part of the shell to wait outside for their turn to join the event party to arrive. I'm in a shell now that probably won't do this type of event as a scheduled event after we get real raids. It will become more of a thing to do on free days when people are looking to do something casual.

I am so intimidated by this post...

edit: ok, I read it... and I agree with your point about braod content pre-2.0...
I honestly dont expect anything before 2.0... anything he adds at this point is bonus... and I'm ok with that... I think most of the request we are seeing relate to post-2.0 content