An open discsusion on the consequences of death

[Hvinire]

Hey all,

Hvinire here with an update from Yoshida on this very topic. Sorry for the delay in responding but please check out the comment that Yoshi-P himself made regarding the community concerns over the current death penalty in Eorzea.

Death Penalty Implementation Ideas
This is Producer/Director Yoshida.

Thanks for the large number of comments! I’m sorry for taking so long to respond!
(I prioritized the preparation of the Producer letter and other scheduled tasks. ^^

After reading through all of the comments, I would like to tell you about the current plans for the death penalty.

• The death penalty is important (For the purpose of creating a sense of nervousness regarding battles)
• Thinking of 2 kinds of death penalties

1. Definite occurrence of a ”Temporary status down” effect upon recovery of death (Wears off after a set time OR by paying gil to an NPC)
2. Occurrence of an ”equipment degradation” effect only when using return after death (Recovered by repair)

• Not currently planning on having a loss of SP/XP at this point in time
• Equipment repair cost relief countermeasures will also be made alongside this.

In regards to the status down effect, we feel that it is necessary to prevent the classic MMO “zombie attack” (Attack > Die > Revive > Attack > Die). There are some players that have touched upon status recovery through NPCs in various threads and comments.

However, we are also planning the below changes to raise at the same time

• Introduction of raise tier system (Raise I/Raise II/Raise III *Temporary names)
• Raise I (After being raised, status down effect, no equipment damage)
• Raise II (After being raised, weaker status down effect or a shortened status down time, no equipment damage)
• Raise III (Perfect raise, no status down effect *Recast time and/or high MP cost)

In other words, even if you die you can get a raise and just take the hit of a temporary status down effect.

However, we determined that it would be necessary to make multiple raise tiers that can be acquired at different ranks since raise is acquired at rank 38 and it is not possible to raise at low-mid ranks.

In addition, in exchange for the death penalty we are looking into making the return cost 0. (This is for regular return, not for when use return when you die.)

Of course we plan to add a 10-20 minute recast timer, but by making the return cost 0:

• It eliminates the need to death warp in order to conserve anima
• Equipment damage when dying will only be occur in the instance of a full party wipe with no one available to cast raise
• Will be a fair amount of risk by relieving the labor of equipment repair (revamp of repair recipes)
• By spreading raises over the low-mid ranks the frequency of revivals will increase (=reduction in party wipes/reduction in death penalty frequency through camaraderie.)

Personally, I would like to see a lot more people tossing out raises as they pass by.

In this regard, I feel that the death penalty is something that creates balance and gives rise to the feeling of nervousness. We have already begun cost evaluation and are planning to implement this in the near future.

In any event, my goal is to create a proper sense of nervousness and not make it so harsh that people log out because they are fed up with the penalties imposed upon death. (Fatigue will be dealt with in another thread)

Please discuss the above points and any comments such as the below would be really helpful:

• This penalty is weak!
• This is perfect!
• Do something else!

Thanks!

There you have it, now back to your regularly scheduled discussion.

[Dubont]

There needs to be a reason to NOT die. Currently, people just rush in to battles with little to no strategy and when someone dies, they LAUGH, brush it off and run back to continue fighting. In 11, if you died, you were upset. Why? Because dying meant something. People did their best not to die. In 14, people think it's fun to die....this is not cool at all.

[Choc]

I still dont like yoshis ideas for death penalty. Maybe if gil had a purpose or was even remotley difficult to obtain then things such as gear damage and paying an npc to remove status effects would actually add some level of risk.

However currently most players that arent new have millions and millions of gil with no sink and a constant income from different sources. Throwing 2k gil for guild support for example doesnt matter when you have 15 million.

Honestly I dont see any risk in dying currently without losing something valuable, and sadly the only thing valuable right now is skill points.

[Kaedan]

There needs to be a reason to NOT die. Currently, people just rush in to battles with little to no strategy and when someone dies, they LAUGH, brush it off and run back to continue fighting. In 11, if you died, you were upset. Why? Because dying meant something. People did their best not to die. In 14, people think it's fun to die....this is not cool at all.

Yes, but keep in mind that in FFXI, people were sometimes SO afraid of dying that they would run away from a fight too soon and leave others to die, when if they had just stayed, they could have defeated the monster.

I still dont like yoshis ideas for death penalty. Maybe if gil had a purpose or was even remotley difficult to obtain then things such as gear damage and paying an npc to remove status effects would actually add some level of risk.

However currently most players that arent new have millions and millions of gil with no sink and a constant income from different sources. Throwing 2k gil for guild support for example doesnt matter when you have 15 million.

Honestly I dont see any risk in dying currently without losing something valuable, and sadly the only thing valuable right now is skill points.

Yes, currently people have a lot of money. That's because there isn't a significant money sink. This would add a significant money sink. There is no changing the fact that people have a lot of money... it's a "can't be helped" sort of situation. But adding a new money sink is better than not adding one. You have to start somewhere.

[Choc]

Yes, but keep in mind that in FFXI, people were sometimes SO afraid of dying that they would run away from a fight too soon and leave others to die, when if they had just stayed, they could have defeated the monster.

Yes, currently people have a lot of money. That's because there isn't a significant money sink. This would add a significant money sink. There is no changing the fact that people have a lot of money... it's a "can't be helped" sort of situation. But adding a new money sink is better than not adding one. You have to start somewhere.

This would likely be something that is scaled based on your physical level, but still im guessing it would be something like 5-10k gil. The main problem is how much money we can obtain, not the sink. Getting 20-50k gil from just doing a leve is pretty absurd.

I would prefer a sp penalty when you die.

[Rjain]

I agree with what Yoshida is getting at but I feel death penalties should be a bit more severe. Gear damage isn't really enough. Although he said SP loss is not happening anytime soon, if it were to be at some point I would suggest not having levels go down if you fall below the threshold.

[Randis]

right now there is a reason to die > coffee break + toilet

[origamikitsune]

I agree with what Yoshida is getting at but I feel death penalties should be a bit more severe. Gear damage isn't really enough. Although he said SP loss is not happening anytime soon, if it were to be at some point I would suggest not having levels go down if you fall below the threshold.

I happen to agree with you on that Rjain, although I side on the hard-core side of things, and I'm pretty sure you do, too. For the casual player XP loss is harsh, and SE has made it pretty clear that they -will- take the casual gamer into consideration. Now, if Gear Damage actually MEANT something, then it could be a good solution. Either by stiffening the penalties on gear (preferable IMO) or by "breaking" gear outright at 0% and having the death penalty be like 50% of remaining Dura. (By breaking, I don't mean destroy, I simply mean reduce stats to 0 until repaired)

[Rebellion]

I still dont like yoshis ideas for death penalty. Maybe if gil had a purpose or was even remotley difficult to obtain then things such as gear damage and paying an npc to remove status effects would actually add some level of risk.

However currently most players that arent new have millions and millions of gil with no sink and a constant income from different sources. Throwing 2k gil for guild support for example doesnt matter when you have 15 million.

Honestly I dont see any risk in dying currently without losing something valuable, and sadly the only thing valuable right now is skill points.

I agree with you on this

[Malakhim]

Hey all,

Hvinire here with an update from Yoshida on this very topic. Sorry for the delay in responding but please check out the comment that Yoshi-P himself made regarding the community concerns over the current death penalty in Eorzea.



There you have it, now back to your regularly scheduled discussion.

This is pretty much great. Make sure to pick the perfect ratio of gear damage and status lowering and we have a winner.