An open discsusion on the consequences of death

[kukurumei]

The repair recipe changing will be a start. There's no point when the repair cost is static and will always be 75%/100%. It takes 1k gil to repair 74% or 4%. Dying makes no difference in hindsight. You're going to repair anyway.

Oh I died, boo hoo, it went from 50% down to 10 percent. I got nothing left to worry about now, charge~~~~ after battle :Repair back to 75%

There is very little stopping the coffee break ideal. That indeed has to change.

I favor the idea of "buy back" as with other games (WoW clones) XP debt keep people mildly happy even if I considered it too weak.

Of course there are other ways to do it, but it goes into the "annoyance" factor. How much annoyance does it take before it outstrips or equals simple XP formulas.

It all has to balance out in the end. The "pain" of death has be be equal. Whether in XP or in annoyances or in the pocket.

If we made XP death 1SP/1XP lost. No one would bat an eye lash. If we made it so that all equipment instantly turns to ZERO, people will claim it's too harsh, and rather get XP lost.

It's not what the "pain" is. It's how "painful" it is.

[Razzle]

I love FFXIV but, SP/XP loss = bye FFXIV for me

That's the main reason I left FFXI, I got into a point where I could lose HOURS of progress in matter of seconds.

A game supposed to be fun, I have fun when my character progress. If I can't progress it's BORING and if I LOSE progress its even worse.
I don't think games should allow you to lose XP or SP.

And all of you who are talking about Death Warps, if SE do this:

When player return after death, they teleport to closest Aetheryal Node / Gate = Death Warp problem solved!
People will not be able to expoilt it.

[Griss]

I like it, and i really am happy to see the idea of the inclusion of multiple teirs of raise. Now turn on the Reraise spells and we will be good to go!

[Hikozaemon]

Death penalty for dying is ok and should be there in some form. Dont need people zombieing crap to death. On the other hand having to worry about repairing crap is just rediculous and very hindering in alot of ways especially to people just starting the game. Maybe have some more basic armor and weapons available in every town that either just doesnt need repairs or make it very affordable. Just weathered weapons of only certain kinds and pants at starting towns does not suffice.
I started in Gran as a pugilist and i had to restart in Ul so i would have basic weapons for the class available to me. And eventho gil is very easy to come buy as you lvl past 10 its still very burdensome to buy new gear and worry about having to repair it at low lvls. Should be a NPC in every town that can repair yer gear for u to some extent for 2-5k.
If a exp/sp loss for death is introduced at least not make it so you can delvl thats just a kick in the face or add a /check/change the mobs colors to correspond w/ your lvl so you have a rough idea what you can handle fighting solo. I ran outside Ul dah today right at the entrace came across some pieste mob that 1shotted me.........(quest mob)?

[Kaedan]

I love FFXIV but, SP/XP loss = bye FFXIV for me

That's the main reason I left FFXI, I got into a point where I could lose HOURS of progress in matter of seconds.

A game supposed to be fun, I have fun when my character progress. If I can't progress it's BORING and if I LOSE progress its even worse.
I don't think games should allow you to lose XP or SP.

And all of you who are talking about Death Warps, if SE do this:

When player return after death, they teleport to closest Aetheryal Node / Gate = Death Warp problem solved!
People will not be able to expoilt it.

So why would you have a problem with SP loss with the potential of buyback (lose nothing except maybe some gil or anima), and not have a problem with repairing (where you're still losing gil)? The problem is that you're assuming it would be like FFXI.

Even the hardcores are willing to accept a somewhat lax death penalty... they just want A death penalty. At the moment, there is no deterrent to stop people from being stupid (I.E. WASTING EVERYONE'S TIME by dying) and as Yoshi-P put it... zombie attacking.

The only real argument I see against death penalty is "it's a game, it should be fun". Well, it's not fun for me when I die because of some moron that doesn't care about dying and ends up wasting my time. There has to be some sort of penalty to discourage people wasting other people's time.

[Rentahamster]

This is an excellent idea that was posted earlier in the thread but I fear it will get lost in the sea of posts so going to stick it back here as SE seem to be watching now, it might give them some idea's.

ah you could call these brave/faith ranks.

I'm liking yoshida's solution though i'm wondering what he means by repair support.

I Like Rentahamster's post:



I think this is a good way of trying to get people to not die, although maybe play around with some of those SP rank requirements a bit.

Hey guys, thanks for repping my idea <3

I fleshed out a few more ideas about this on my blog.
http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...entry?e=155429

Some additional points:

Here's a quick summary of what I'm trying to achieve here - I want a system that rewards players (but not too much) for staying alive, rather than punishes players for dying. I believe that the bias should be towards positive reinforcement as that makes for a more enjoyable gameplay experience. I believe that the method below gives hardcore players (who usually want a death penalty) a reason to care more about not dying, mainly by stroking their egos, while also having death have a real impact on time invested. At the same time, casual players can continue going along throwing themselves at whatever enemy they want no differently than they do now (almost).


Let me put the anima loss into further context. I had envisioned this change along with other changes to the game so that anima wouldn't be such a scarce resource as it is now.

What I wanted to do was to punish the player for dying only a little, and taking away SP is out of the question. That would be too harsh, so the next best thing would be anima.

Now, about my other changes to the anima system so that this would not be as terrible as some have suggested:

I would have all returns done while still alive cost 0 anima. Yoshi-P mentioned that he wants a solution to death porting, so this would be the easiest way.

Also, I would expand the number of favorite locations to 5. Perhaps make a quest that grants you more favorite locations, or something.

Reduce the anima cost of a teleport into a different region from 6 to 5.

Implement other modes of transportation like Chocobos and airships.

This way, the loss of anima still stings a little, but it's not really that bad. It's also not as soul-crushing as losing SP and ranking down.

[Nephera]

The difference between a game with sp/xp loss and deleveling and a game without it.

about 50 hours of grinding.

[Kaedan]

Hey guys, thanks for repping my idea <3
This way, the loss of anima still stings a little, but it's not really that bad. It's also not as soul-crushing as losing SP and ranking down.

Why does everyone still think that SP loss would come with ranking down?

In the method I suggested, you would lose SP, but you would never delevel. And even then, you would be able to buy the SP back. And one of the suggestions I made is to buy back with Anima.

Essentially, we both have the same discouragement: Anima loss. But the SP loss system allows people to choose... they can choose to either lose SP or lose Anima. In your system, you have to lose Anima. To some people, their Anima is more useful to them than their SP.

And what about when someone reaches 0 Anima? Then it's no different than it is now and they are free to just die over and over, wasting everyone's time. In the SP system, you can choose to spend Anima to recover SP, but if you hit 0, you won't be able to buy it back anymore, which would still force people to be more careful so they don't waste everyone's time dying.

Not saying your idea is necessarily bad, but there are a couple of holes, and I don't see "positive reinforcement" as the most effective (and you still have negative reinforcement in there too, so it's ends up in a wash anyway).

[PandaTaru]

SP loss with possibility to buy it back make no sense at all. It's pretty much like having no SP loss but with an extra step.

anima loss after death... you guys really this game to fail miserably or are you just masochists? If it's the later, get into BSDM-RP rather than playing MMO(s). Seriously :x

[Kaedan]

I actually have to pose a question to those against a SP loss system (no delevel, and with buyback):

As it is now, under weakness you either zerg, or it prevents you from gaining SP while under weakness. So how is denying SP any different from losing SP?

Also, why haven't you people considered the people you are playing with? When you die, yeah there might not be tangible penalties, but you have just wasted your and someone else's time. And in an MMO, there is nothing of greater value than time.

So I have a great idea. Let's just increase the weakness timer to 10 minutes. There, you're not "losing SP".