Quote Originally Posted by h-alpha View Post
Not that I don't agree with your points here, but I'd like to just clarify that unless I'm missing something else that contradicts what we're told here, creations don't spontaneously gain a soul sometimes. In fact, it sounds like it's quite the opposite, that even creatures born of "natural phenomena" sometimes don't have souls (the lightning sprites/pneuma that we see just shortly after Hermes says that, for example).

Which to me, that explains a lot of why the researchers at Elpis seem adamant about testing whether their creations can survive on their own or not, because if your creation can endure on its own and have offspring, those offspring may have a chance of gaining a soul and being considered to be living.
Thinks for bringing this one up, because it actually brings up something interesting. Not only does it confirm that yeah, sometimes ensouled creations just happen albeit rarely (hello, Phoinix), but it raises an important case study that I'm surprised nobody has mentioned in regards to this, that is pretty closely paired with what Denishia raised:

Meteion.

Meteion wasn't made by natural phenomena; Hermes made her as part of an extensive project. That means that to the best of my recollection, no Meteion has a soul--and certainly, the way that Emet-Selch treats her compared to the confirmably ensouled non-Ancient creature we actually do see him interact with (the charybdis) suggests that even if she does have a soul, he isn't acting like they expect her to. But I think we all agree that Meteion is a cool person with feelings that's worthy of care and love, even if she doesn't have a soul that persists beyond her death.

So what makes her different from the other non-ensouled creatures in Elpis, like the ones that Meleton considers basically disposable prototypes? Are we so reliant on human traits for empathy that we're only basing this on the fact she has a human face? Is it just the fact that we know Meteion getting badfeels causes the apocalypse? As I've said multiple times, Y'shtola treats the nixie she puts in harm's way with a lot of empathy and respect; does the fact the nixie is ultimately an extension of her aether make it different? If it is effectively no different, is the respect Y'shtola gives enough to make up for what happened?

A lot of this definitely comes down to personal and subjective feelings on the level of 'how much do you care about the cow that meat came from', and I don't think there's anyone on Earth who enjoys those kinds of conversations. But if we're going to be talking about the inherent value of lives that are being snuffed out by people in this entirely fictional story, then I think we need to chew on the fact that the differences between Meteion and the butterflies Hythlodaeus asks you to kill for clothes are ultimately superficial.