In regards to something involving the main cast

[KizuyaKatogami]

We may be shocked by the butterflies because unlike us who need to kill other creatues to get something to eat and clothes the ancients should be able to create them out of thin air. I mean we have a couple of fates in this region showing us exactly that. Also the other option was to ask, if its okay to just take these out because we are just visitors in this facility. Which imo makes sense to ask.

So bascially we have the Ancients on one side that do like to create and destroy living beings on a whim without the need to do that. While on the other side we have us split beings that are so weak in aether manipulation that we have to take our ressources from the beasts and animals by killing them. At the same time we are part of that circle of life because unlike the godlike ancients we are in danger of being eaten too.

About Ysthola and her familiars: I think the biggest difference is that the Ancients were able to create beings that either already got a soul or that might get one in later generations. Yet a lot of them still threated those beings like magical constructs. As far as we know Ystholas creations have no souls. We dont even know if they have any sort of real emotions. Bascially they are more like carbuncles and other summoned things. For me they are more like robots while the beings the ancient created were alive and had emotions. So yes there is imo a difference between that.
(And even though they are not alive, Ysthola still talked kindly to them afterwards and showed great care for them. She did not need to touch and speak to them like that, she could have just vanished them)

So if taking care and being kind to them makes it okay…then what makes the ancients wrong for what they do? They have literal funeral rites for them. Also….then can you try and explain the colosseum where people rip animals apart for sport and entertainment? Not even just for survival? Or what about the Eden primals. They were very much alive and had emotions and we created them just to kill them.

[sidurgu-12]

So if taking care and being kind to them makes it okay…then what makes the ancients wrong for what they do? They have literal funeral rites for them. Also….then can you try and explain the colosseum where people rip animals apart for sport and entertainment? Not even just for survival? Or what about the Eden primals. They were very much alive and had emotions and we created them just to kill them.

taking eden raid completely out of context there. like way out of context. theyre at best flanderized versions of the originals who were summoned to help heal the world. by gathering specified aspected aether and dispersing it with their defeat.

[MikkoAkure]

So if taking care and being kind to them makes it okay…then what makes the ancients wrong for what they do? They have literal funeral rites for them. Also….then can you try and explain the colosseum where people rip animals apart for sport and entertainment? Not even just for survival? Or what about the Eden primals. They were very much alive and had emotions and we created them just to kill them.

The Ancient who summons up his creations for you in a chain of FATEs because he's having a dry spell and wants to watch them die doesn't perform funeral rites as he asks us to keep killing his creatures and then he thanks us at the end after summoning something that expects to kill us and expresses his surprise that we're a "strong familiar".

[Slatersev]

So if taking care and being kind to them makes it okay…then what makes the ancients wrong for what they do? They have literal funeral rites for them. Also….then can you try and explain the colosseum where people rip animals apart for sport and entertainment? Not even just for survival? Or what about the Eden primals. They were very much alive and had emotions and we created them just to kill them.

No they didn't. They came up with the idea to give them rites for the first time after the WOL specifically suggested it. Before that they just asked specific people to magic the bodies back into the planet.

They literally got the idea from a Sundered being. Which has been brought up before but you keep ignoring it.

Which is bizarre because the entire quest chain is all about the Wol surprising the researches and finally helping them articulate a feeling they had about the casual disposal of there creations that they hadn't been able to name before.

Its a nice way to show how similar they are at there core, not an example of innate superiority

[Alleo]

So if taking care and being kind to them makes it okay…then what makes the ancients wrong for what they do? They have literal funeral rites for them. Also….then can you try and explain the colosseum where people rip animals apart for sport and entertainment? Not even just for survival? Or what about the Eden primals. They were very much alive and had emotions and we created them just to kill them.

No I also said that they are bascially magical constructs. They are NOT alive. They probably dont even have any sort of emotions and just say what the casters wanted them to say. Yet still Ysthola showed care for them. The creations the ancient in Elpis create are living beings. They are meant to breed and be released onto the earth. Yet even though they are alive, they are unmade in a blink of an eye because someone did not like their design. Heck even we, who we have souls and emotions (and seemingly are sentient enough) are sent out in fates against horrible beasts, with the risks of us dieing. The ancients of these specifics fates were more than fine with that though, since it would save them from risking their own lives.

This is the difference.

Primals are also not quite clear. We know from Titan that they are deeply influenced by the casters and we have no idea if they really can emote on their own or if its just what the casters wanted them to be. (Just like how Garuda and the others are much more different when they are summoned to help us)

The other example makes no sense to use in this topic because this is about the Main cast. The rest of the world can be a horrible place which is already quite established by everyone. So not really sure why you need to bring that up? Bascially what it ends up though is that the Ancients are not better than us in many regards (unlike the picture that Emet wanted to paint them). So just like we are able to point out any flaws that the sundered have, we should also be allowed to point out the flaws the ancient have without the need to make it a competition.

None of the characters are perfect (thankfully), but overall the Scions are just simply good people.

(And the funeral rites was something WE introduced to them. Before us they bascially just went there and returned their aether to the star. It was through all the quests with us that these side npcs started to think about their actions. We bascially can tell them about our feelings and how we see those things and the do say that their thought process has gone stale and that our ideas brought fresh wind there. Which included our tradition to give flowers to deceased beings. Using that as an example for the Ancient is thus imo wrong.)

They do. This was pointed out both in ShB side quests and in Elpis. The whole reason we have to kill the butterflies is because Emet refuses to conjure a robe for us and we can't make one ourselves. Otherwise, no butterflies would've been harmed.

I know which is why we maybe were able to point that out. (Since we knew that someone like Emet was able to create a whole city with his power) It was completely unnecessary to kill these butterflies and yet we had to do that and Hythlo bascially did not bat an eye for that. Which is the difference to us: We cant just create stuff out of thin air so we have to kill or harvest goods from animals. We are not doing it because we find it fun or because its less tedious, we simply have to do it. But at the same time the normal people are in turn also part of the hunt and can die by the same claws of the animals they tried to hunt. We are in the Circle of Life, unlike the Ancient who are above it.

I haven't done that quest yet so it's my first time reading through the dialog. Am I missing something? The only thing I see the WoL added were flowers. They already had rites they performed and said that the WoL's addition 'elevated' it.

I've often wondered if we played the same game and maybe this is my answer. Even reading the same quest text we arrive at different conclusions.

What they bascially did before we came was going to the creatures and using spells to make them "disappear" faster so that 1. the bodies are not left there to rot and 2. the aether can go back to the star faster. They bascially have a way to dispose their failed experiments in a fast and clean way. We told them about our customs thus they now might do more when a creation was killed before it could reach its design goals.

They also only do this when there is an unexpected turn of mass death.