In regards to something involving the main cast

[KizuyaKatogami]

taking eden raid completely out of context there. like way out of context. theyre at best flanderized versions of the originals who were summoned to help heal the world. by gathering specified aspected aether and dispersing it with their defeat.

How is it out of context. Yes they were summoned to heal the word and to do that we need to kill then. They clearly didn’t want to be killed as Garuda even exclaims “you dare defy me?” They’re still primals in their own right, creations in a way. The same way the ancients created beings in hopes of developing the world and doing their duties as it’s stewards.

[sidurgu-12]

How is it out of context. Yes they were summoned to heal the word and to do that we need to kill then. They clearly didn’t want to be killed as Garuda even exclaims “you dare defy me?” They’re still primals in their own right, creations in a way. The same way the ancients created beings in hopes of developing the world and doing their duties as it’s stewards.

their entire personality and appearance is based on the wols hazy memories of them. hence two headed leviathan, atv titan, fusing garuda and ifrit and centaur ramuh.

[MikkoAkure]

So if taking care and being kind to them makes it okay…then what makes the ancients wrong for what they do? They have literal funeral rites for them. Also….then can you try and explain the colosseum where people rip animals apart for sport and entertainment? Not even just for survival? Or what about the Eden primals. They were very much alive and had emotions and we created them just to kill them.

The Ancient who summons up his creations for you in a chain of FATEs because he's having a dry spell and wants to watch them die doesn't perform funeral rites as he asks us to keep killing his creatures and then he thanks us at the end after summoning something that expects to kill us and expresses his surprise that we're a "strong familiar".

[Slatersev]

So if taking care and being kind to them makes it okay…then what makes the ancients wrong for what they do? They have literal funeral rites for them. Also….then can you try and explain the colosseum where people rip animals apart for sport and entertainment? Not even just for survival? Or what about the Eden primals. They were very much alive and had emotions and we created them just to kill them.

No they didn't. They came up with the idea to give them rites for the first time after the WOL specifically suggested it. Before that they just asked specific people to magic the bodies back into the planet.

They literally got the idea from a Sundered being. Which has been brought up before but you keep ignoring it.

Which is bizarre because the entire quest chain is all about the Wol surprising the researches and finally helping them articulate a feeling they had about the casual disposal of there creations that they hadn't been able to name before.

Its a nice way to show how similar they are at there core, not an example of innate superiority

[KizuyaKatogami]

No they didn't. They came up with the idea to give them rites for the first time after the WOL specifically suggested it. Before that they just asked specific people to magic the bodies back into the planet.

They literally got the idea from a Sundered being. Which has been brought up before but you keep ignoring it.

Which is bizarre because the entire quest chain is all about the Wol surprising the researches and finally helping them articulate a feeling they had about the casual disposal of there creations that they hadn't been able to name before.

Its a nice way to show how similar they are at there core, not an example of innate superiority

I’m not ignoring it, someone already gave you in game evidence that you’re wrong. The only thing we contributed is the flower thing. Everything else was their own rite.

Alkaios
Vessels within which life once flowed; cheated of purpose, stilled and cold. Unto the land you now return, the fuel 'pon which new life shall burn.
Maira
That was a beautiful service. I like to think it brought some joy to their departed souls, much as one feels when receiving a thoughtful gift.
Charmion
Yes, the flowers were the perfect addition. How fortunate we are to have this knowledgeable familiar in our midst!
Note: addition
Sokles
We must return and commit this event to parchment while it remains fresh in our minds─a potential shift in our traditions is a historical moment worth recording.

Thank you again, Alkaios. We are ever grateful for your calming presence.

And our thanks to you, Maira and Forename─not only for attending, but also elevating the proceedings.

Alkaios
That was a different kind of service. I think...yes, we might consider some changes.

[Theodric]

A link to the source, for those curious:

https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/M...rning#Dialogue

[MikkoAkure]

A link to the source, for those curious:

https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/M...rning#Dialogue

That quest dialogue brings up another thing though. The Ancients' creations leave behind remains and are made of flesh, blood, and bone. Familiars like nixies and carbuncles, as well as the primals are all made of aether and do not leave anything behind.

I think that alone puts the use of familiars in a different category. The Ancients probably feel the same as well, especially considering that FATE chain I mentioned previously where we're expected to die and the Ancient is cheering his creation along.

[sidurgu-12]

A link to the source, for those curious:

https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/M...rning#Dialogue

reading through the quest it reads like the wol introduced the mourning aspect to the ritual while before it was simply a way to return dead creations back to the world faster.
for example

A physical reminder of the life that was? An interesting sentiment, but if we practiced such a custom in Elpis, we would eventually run out of places to put them.

We must return and commit this event to parchment while it remains fresh in our minds─a potential shift in our traditions is a historical moment worth recording.

Thank you again, Alkaios. We are ever grateful for your calming presence.

And our thanks to you, Maira and Forename─not only for attending, but also elevating the proceedings.

im not calling them heartless, the quest proves otherwise, im just saying i don't think its a mourning ritual.

[Cleretic]

reading through the quest it reads like the wol introduced the mourning aspect to the ritual while before it was simply a way to return dead creations back to the world faster.
for example



im not calling them heartless, the quest proves otherwise, im just saying i don't think its a mourning ritual.

It also confirms that this is a new concept, and so can't be pulled out as evidence for 'see, the Ancients treat their creations' lives with respect'. Amaurot existed for an unclear but significant amount of time, and they needed help from a time traveler to come up with the concept of funerals.

Like you said, not heartless, but their hearts clearly aren't with those lives.

[Rulakir]

I haven't done that quest yet so it's my first time reading through the dialog. Am I missing something? The only thing I see the WoL added were flowers. They already had rites they performed and said that the WoL's addition 'elevated' it.

I've often wondered if we played the same game and maybe this is my answer. Even reading the same quest text we arrive at different conclusions.