White Mage's 6.1 changes fail to address a core issue I have with the job.

[Yhisa]

I mean yes, but I was replying to someone suggesting that blowing lilies as often as possible was the name of the game.

Still hate 'em. You can use them for moving (and overhealing) or weaving (and overhealing). They're like a more sophisticated Freecure trap. They allow you to do important, useful things by funneling you into casting healing spells whether they're useful or not, which is how bad healers play. I'd much rather a system that rewards the player for timing their resource use well, or tempts them with tough choices that all lead to positive outcomes that are hard to discern which is better. Lilies are like that bad healer tutorial on the sidelines shouting "you should be casting healing spells constantly, all the time! That's how skilled healers play".

No thats where ur being neglective how lilies work....u have 20secs per lily generation ....so u have to wait for 40secs for 2 lilies

Im pretty sure lilies wont go into "overhealing" in 40secs of a boss fight.....with ur mindset ur acting like mechanics dont happen at all in 20sec window

1 lily @ 20sec
2 lily @ 40sec
3 lily @ 60sec
Blood lily @60sec. (u dont need to use it yet)
4 lily @ 80sec
5 lily @ 100sec
6lily @120sec (bad news u overcapped)

U legit have 120sec before you over cap your blood lily gauge so u legit have 60sec between ur blood lily and your next full lilies before u overcap

Moral of the story u have legit 60secs to use 1-3 lilies before ur capped off and NONE of it will result in overhealing

Also base on ur reply, sounds like you hate healing in general, ffxiv is more "support" instead of healing, yeah sure u can make it more "rewarding" for "complexity" but by doing this u also forget one major aspect

CASUALS EXIST

I have seen the healer forum keep requesting healers to be more "fun" and not a brain dead 1.1.1.1.1.2 but reality is that only happens in "high" end gameplay where everyone knows what they doing, there is a thing called "being too good"

Example ill use golf....tigerwoods was sooo good at golf, but did u know they had to make drastic changes to the course to prevent him from winning easily due to his skill level (true story btw)

The same applies to gaming, some people just have better skill or are in a skilled group altogether, which can sometimes takes the fun out of the game cause everyone knows what they doing, so it gets boring, the job feels dull and bland, the player feels adding more buttons will help their bordom, because their group barely makes errors or mistakes

However i will state this, i do want abit more for healers, but not a full on rotation of major complexity, and this isnt for me but more for the duty finder/party finder ....i do NOT want to reduce the overall healer playerbase for complexity because thats BAD for the game as a whole....unless people like to wait 20+ mins to do stuff or morw

[RinaShinomiya]

No thats where ur being neglective how lilies work....u have 20secs per lily generation ....so u have to wait for 40secs for 2 lilies

Im pretty sure lilies wont go into "overhealing" in 40secs of a boss fight.....with ur mindset ur acting like mechanics dont happen at all in 20sec window

1 lily @ 20sec
2 lily @ 40sec
3 lily @ 60sec
Blood lily @60sec. (u dont need to use it yet)
4 lily @ 80sec
5 lily @ 100sec
6lily @120sec (bad news u overcapped)

U legit have 120sec before you over cap your blood lily gauge so u legit have 60sec between ur blood lily and your next full lilies before u overcap

Moral of the story u have legit 60secs to use 1-3 lilies before ur capped off and NONE of it will result in overhealing

While i don't particularly agree with Semir's distain for the lily system, 60s often isnt enough to prevent overhealing. We've heard this song multiple times from Scholars and Sages. Even back in SHB i often found myself stuck at 3 lilies, not because i didnt wanna use them, there just wasnt any damage to heal. This Change absolutely will cause overhealing.

[ty_taurus]

No thats where ur being neglective how lilies work....u have 20secs per lily generation ....so u have to wait for 40secs for 2 lilies

Im pretty sure lilies wont go into "overhealing" in 40secs of a boss fight.....with ur mindset ur acting like mechanics dont happen at all in 20sec window

1 lily @ 20sec
2 lily @ 40sec
3 lily @ 60sec
Blood lily @60sec. (u dont need to use it yet)
4 lily @ 80sec
5 lily @ 100sec
6lily @120sec (bad news u overcapped)

U legit have 120sec before you over cap your blood lily gauge so u legit have 60sec between ur blood lily and your next full lilies before u overcap

Moral of the story u have legit 60secs to use 1-3 lilies before ur capped off and NONE of it will result in overhealing

You're missing the point. The lilies do indeed now function as a working system, but her point is that the potency increase fails to address two core flaws with the lily system's design. First is how you still nourish the blood lily when spending lilies during downtime or inbetween fights, and because that readies your next cast of Afflatus Misery, you're obligated to burn as many lilies as you can or as are needed between phases of a fight or between one trash pack and the next rather than actively use them in combat. Additionally, when you are in combat, you're also obligated to avoid overcapping on lilies otherwise you're losing value. And maybe you don't believe it, but many fights throughout the game, even in savage, have dry periods where not enough damage is being dealt and you have nothing to heal.

As a Sage, I have a very similar resource in Addersgall. I don't want to sit on max Addersgall because using those actions restores my MP, so I'm obligated to use them before I hit 3. But in most fights in the game, I hit segments where I'm throwing Druochole on myself at full HP because no one's injured. As a Sage, a part of this is because I have Kardia on my tank, but with how much self healing tanks have, this experience won't be much different for WHM.

Take Smileton for example. Do you know the second boss only uses 1 unavoidable AoE in the entire fight? I'd estimate that roughly 70% of my Addersgall is spent on someone with full HP in that dungeon. That, I might remind you, is categorized as "Expert."

So while the improved potency does fix the biggest glaring flaw with the lily system, it's not entirely fixed and does need to be addressed in the future along with many other things the healers have needed for years now.

[Yhisa]

While i don't particularly agree with Semir's distain for the lily system, 60s often isnt enough to prevent overhealing. We've heard this song multiple times from Scholars and Sages. Even back in SHB i often found myself stuck at 3 lilies, not because i didnt wanna use them, there just wasnt any damage to heal. This Change absolutely will cause overhealing.

Scholar and sages have that problem because of fairy + kardia or because they "clashing" cds with their co healer

There have been many times where i have used a lily and the scholar have also tried to use lustrate at the same time which then result into overhealing

With 6.1 i thing players will need to coordinate with their co healers on who is healing what

Example scholar can use lustrate etc for dps, and have the white mage use lilies for tanks, this way it prevents clashing of cooldowns and attempts to minimize overhealing for BOTH healers

Thats how myself and my other half does it, my lilies is sole for tanks, their lustrate is for dps, and we let eos top people off , if they need extra ill throw a divine benesion on a dps so they can take a hit

[Yhisa]

You're missing the point. The lilies do indeed now function as a working system, but her point is that the potency increase fails to address two core flaws with the lily system's design. First is how you still nourish the blood lily when spending lilies during downtime or inbetween fights, and because that readies your next cast of Afflatus Misery, you're obligated to burn as many lilies as you can or as are needed between phases of a fight or between one trash pack and the next rather than actively use them in combat. Additionally, when you are in combat, you're also obligated to avoid overcapping on lilies otherwise you're losing value. And maybe you don't believe it, but many fights throughout the game, even in savage, have dry periods where not enough damage is being dealt and you have nothing to heal.

As a Sage, I have a very similar resource in Addersgall. I don't want to sit on max Addersgall because using those actions restores my MP, so I'm obligated to use them before I hit 3. But in most fights in the game, I hit segments where I'm throwing Druochole on myself at full HP because no one's injured. As a Sage, a part of this is because I have Kardia on my tank, but with how much self healing tanks have, this experience won't be much different for WHM.

Take Smileton for example. Do you know the second boss only uses 1 unavoidable AoE in the entire fight? I'd estimate that roughly 70% of my Addersgall is spent on someone with full HP in that dungeon. That, I might remind you, is categorized as "Expert."

So while the improved potency does fix the biggest glaring flaw with the lily system, it's not entirely fixed and does need to be addressed in the future along with many other things the healers have needed for years now.

Ur comparing white mage to sage....also ur using "dungeons" as a reference which isnt even hard to begin with and tanks can solo all of it (done it already on paladin) which us pointing out that expert is BAD in general...not white mage is bad

Sage problem is they have a WAYYYYY to many OGCD to heal

White mage have
Assize(used for dps), tetra, benediction, asylum

So as a white mage what u gonna do?
U use ur lilies

So no im not missing the point, you have given me a bad example which highlight problems with "tank" self healing in expert dungeons , and that expert dungeons does NOT provide any damage for ANY healer to do their job

[currentlemon]

The core issue I had with WHM is that it's still boring to play (like with most people). I'd honestly prefer not to play the job again until we it gets reworked to Sarixis level quality. But if that is impossible, then perhaps the following:

• Assize up to 2 charges with 40sec cooldown.
• Tetra heal potency is nerfed but grants a lily on use.
• Bring back Fluid Aura or Aero III back as a spell similar to SGE's Phlegma ability (minus the heals).
• Have lilies unlock at level 30 and replace Cure 2 and Medica perspectively when a lily is in bloom.
• Thin Air nerfs reverted or have it built as a stack skill (like the new Blood Weapon or Inner Release).

[ty_taurus]

Ur comparing white mage to sage....also ur using "dungeons" as a reference which isnt even hard to begin with and tanks can solo all of it (done it already on paladin) which us pointing out that expert is BAD in general...not white mage is bad

Sage problem is they have a WAYYYYY to many OGCD to heal

White mage have
Assize(used for dps), tetra, benediction, asylum

So as a white mage what u gonna do?
U use ur lilies

SGE and WHM have a very similar resource. We both generate resources automatically every 20 seconds to a cap of 3 that we spend on healing tools. GCD or OGCD is entirely irrelevant now since the lilies have been buffed to bypass the inherent flaw of GCD healing. The fact that I used a dungeon as an example shouldn't matter because contrary to popular believe, all aspects of a game should be fun and well-designed, not just the hard content, but even in Savage that is still a regular issue I run into--needing to waste healing when the party is unharmed just to prevent overcapping Addersgall. I don't even get to use half my cooldowns in most content in this game because my Addersgall demands I use it first.

[Yhisa]

The core issue I had with WHM is that it's still boring to play (like with most people). I'd honestly prefer not to play the job again until we it gets reworked to Sarixis level quality. But if that is impossible, then perhaps the following:

• Assize up to 2 charges with 40sec cooldown.
• Tetra heal potency is nerfed but grants a lily on use.
• Bring back Fluid Aura or Aero III back as a spell similar to SGE's Phlegma ability (minus the heals).
• Have lilies unlock at level 30 and replace Cure 2 and Medica perspectively when a lily is in bloom.
• Thin Air nerfs reverted or have it built as a stack skill (like the new Blood Weapon or Inner Release).

2x assize wont do anything benefical to white mage....all it does is allow us to have an additional assize at the start of the fight, which result with us pressing it on cd within burst windows, which result ....may aswell just stick with 1 assize and stick it on a 30sec cd instead and nerf its damage slightly and healing to compensate for 2 assize every 60sec

Tetra dont need to add more lilies ...whilst i do agree its out of place at this current time, but having it give lilies will be a bad idea, since ur misery will drift

Cure 2 and medica 2 will happen eventually to prevent button bloat

No thin air is fine as it is now, especially with 6.1 as lilies saves a tone of MP, however i would change free cure to free cast to work with "any" spell, thin air allows me to choose between raise and cure lll or medica ll, which result my entire MP bar is legit for glares and dia only

[ty_taurus]

2x assize wont do anything benefical to white mage....all it does is allow us to have an additional assize at the start of the fight, which result with us pressing it on cd within burst windows, which result ....may aswell just stick with 1 assize and stick it on a 30sec cd instead and nerf its damage slightly and healing to compensate for 2 assize every 60sec

Tetra dont need to add more lilies ...whilst i do agree its out of place at this current time, but having it give lilies will be a bad idea, since ur misery will drift

Cure 2 and medica 2 will happen eventually to prevent button bloat

No thin air is fine as it is now, especially with 6.1 as lilies saves a tone of MP, however i would change free cure to free cast to work with "any" spell, thin air allows me to choose between raise and cure lll or medica ll, which result my entire MP bar is legit for glares and dia only

You really do have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, huh?

[EaMett]

The Major issue with healers, in general, is that I haven't seen any indication that the devs look at healing priorities. Like the OP says, WHM is currently relegated to (almost) last of the barrel for heals. Now this, in and of itself, isn't an issue; A healer needs to be last after all. But for that healer to be the powerhouse WHM? That feels awfully backwards.