P1N Warrior solo kill

[BaconBits]

All this moaning about healing when the invuln is the problem lol.

You'd have to pry Holmgang out of WAR's cold dead hands then listen to their screams of outrage until SE inevitably gives it back to them along with some random buff that wasn't even asked for.

Better to just give healers more interactive toys to play with that isn't "Bog-standard heal #69" so they're not malding out every time someone looks at content and says "But what if no healers".

[Nizzi]

Raiding in with random people in PF had showed me healers don't need more damage buttons… why? Simple, because in several runs they were focus on DPS and example easy P1S Ice/fire/death mech, and they were unable to put shield and regen on the party... because they were DPSing... My friend and I that we have WHM and SAGE up says dude if this continues we switch to healer…
So answer is NO healers don't need more buttons for DPS because with 1 they already became a green DPS without healing the party I don't want to imagine with 2 or 3…

Tanks don't deserve more DPS either, they should really have less because so many of them can't perform their role properly and are unable to mitigate.
So the answer is NO tanks don't need more buttons for DPS and in fact they need less, don't want to imagine them with more. Hopefully SE removes tanks bloated and meaningless DPS kits in 7.0 so they can focus on what they're supposed to do, which is TANK.....

[Recon1o6]

While I agree that good healers have quit the role is undeniable, one of my best FC and raider is now DNC, and she was WHM…
Raiding in with random people in PF had showed me healers don't need more damage buttons… why? Simple, because in several runs they were focus on DPS and example easy P1S Ice/fire/death mech, and they were unable to put shield and regen on the party... because they were DPSing... My friend and I that we have WHM and SAGE up says dude if this continues we switch to healer…
So answer is NO healers don't need more buttons for DPS because with 1 they already became a green DPS without healing the party I don't want to imagine with 2 or 3…

Plus they are casters... what do you expect? A heavy armour on them? a light armour?

Yes they do need more damage buttons. For the simple reason that constantly pressing 1 button for 60-90% of your gcds from level 1 to 90 is not just boring but a turn off to new healers and veterans alike. Fighting the golem at level 10? 1 dot and 1 nuke. Fighting Raubahn? 1 dot and nuke. Fighting Zenos at the end of endwalker? 1 dot and fucking nuke.

Its not for balance, its for FUN. You know the main reason you play a game?

And yes, casters in light or heavy armour would be nice because 12 years of white robe or coat is too long. All the other roles can wear a variety from heavy plate, to jackets, to chainmail, to robes, but healers are stuck with cloth everything bar a few incredibly rare pieces. Not even full sets, just the odd piece like aurum boots or deepshadow chest. There's still only one helmet exclusive for healers.

They couldn't even leave an imported outfit from ff12 alone, no they just HAD to make it another dress.

[Alzinor]

Yes they do need more damage buttons. For the simple reason that constantly pressing 1 button for 60-90% of your gcds from level 1 to 90 is not just boring but a turn off to new healers and veterans alike. Fighting the golem at level 10? 1 dot and 1 nuke. Fighting Raubahn? 1 dot and nuke. Fighting Zenos at the end of endwalker? 1 dot and fucking nuke.

Its not for balance, its for FUN. You know the main reason you play a game?

And yes, casters in light or heavy armour would be nice because 12 years of white robe or coat is too long. All the other roles can wear a variety from heavy plate, to jackets, to chainmail, to robes, but healers are stuck with cloth everything bar a few incredibly rare pieces. Not even full sets, just the odd piece like aurum boots or deepshadow chest. There's still only one helmet exclusive for healers.

They couldn't even leave an imported outfit from ff12 alone, no they just HAD to make it another dress.

if you wanna have fun with a fun dps rotation, play a dps.

As a healer, you'll mainly have fun with your healing rotation which is your main job.

and atm you complain but sage have more than 2 buttons to dps and is fun to play on both dps and healing side.

[BaconBits]

if you wanna have fun with a fun dps rotation, play a dps.

As a healer, you'll mainly have fun with your healing rotation which is your main job.

and atm you complain but sage have more than 2 buttons to dps and is fun to play on both dps and healing side.

If you wanna have fun with a fun dps rotation, play a dps.

As a tank, you'll mainly have fun with your mitigation rotation which is your main job.

And atm you complain but Gunbreaker has more than 2 buttons to dps and is fun to play on both dps and tanking side.

See how much of a non-argument this is? If tanks were suddenly stripped down to all of one spammable dps ability while the devs continued to shove more and more mitigation abilities that are rendered unnecessary in a large amount of content, people would be pissed off and rightfully so. Even moreso if the shoe was on the other foot and it was healers clearing current EXs and Savage floors without tanks, doing all healer runs in Ultimates, or speedrunning "Expert" dungeons with comps like SGE + 3 DPS.

All I'm trying to say is, neither side should be so quick to put the other down when at the end of the day both sides just want fun gameplay. And I'd like to think that smashing one button in until it's worn out isn't most people's idea of fun.

[KariTheFox]

SE, pleae give healers more interesting things to do before they take a bunch of tanks hostage and demand that bloodwhetting and heart of corundum get removed from the game. The healers are only getting madder and it's scaring me.

[Ixon]

You're missing the point. All that so called power is worthless because CONTENT DOESNT REQUIRE IT.

Some content, not all. A large issue comes from some of the fight designs being undertuned. Even most tanks roll through most normal raid content only pressing one or two defensive GCD's. However in the savage fights and especially the later floors, the healing there IS required, which I assume is by design. Why do you think there is no enrage on normal fights? SE most likely designed it that was so if I get queued with freestyle DPS and no DPS Cure 1 healers we can still clear the fight. The EX's being cleared healerless to me is an undertuned fight, which it was. There were what, like 4 scary AoEs in all of EX1? Though again, that might be by design. It's not like Innocence or Titania were crazy difficult.

To your other points:
- I don't see where healers are made irrelevant in Savage content, and healers being irrelevant in normal modes shouldn't matter(I've already mentioned the EX's were undertuned). Besides, well tuned groups cut out a tank or a healer from speed runs all the time because at the end of the day the only thing that matters is damage. Hell, I've done 4 DPS dungeon runs for fun, nothing really matters in a majority of content.
- Everyone's kit is homogenized. Ever seen a tanks kit? And again, most tank and healer kits are overpowered for most normal fights.
- Button spam is probably boring, but you have to account for button bloat. So to add dps options you have to take away healing options, and which do you take away? Though I do think they did well in this regard with Sage, it will just take some dev cycles to bring the others up to that level.
- I swear Tanks have more skirts than healers lol. And it's not like they are singling people out. Healers, Casters, and Ranged wear the light stuff, melee the medium, tanks the heavy. It's a game design choice standard to most trinity games.
-"SE lying and ignoring feedback for years on end about the"- *insert literally anything you want here.
- DPS or bust has been the name of the game since Alexander, tanks get the scraps too.

Again, I am in no way saying things couldn't be better, I just don't believe it is as much of a catastrophe as people make it to be. Tune the fights better to utilize kits to a percentage equal to their difficulty, like force 50% kit usage in normal cause it's normal and 75%-90% in Savage, 110% in Ultimates. Add a slightly more in-depth dps rotation that doens't bloat the jobs but doesn't also make them clunky when trying to do the healing part of content(Or give them a 1-2-3 combo that breaks on gcd heals for all I care lol).

[Arckrin]

IMO, I think the main thing being argued for here is for Healers to at the very least not be rendered redundant in current content. They've already had large chunks of their kits removed (or in WHM's case didn't have much left even before SHB)... .

You should read what I say before in this post before answer me this. So at LEAST, you know my idea when I say they remove Protect, StoneSkin. as an example... And NO this change the fact that Healers already contribute with 1 skill the same amount DPS as a tank while having shields, regens and Cures. And then people asking more Gear xD Funny hilarious DPS mentality is nuts and that is why they downscale everything.

Tanks don't deserve more DPS either, they should really have less because so many of them can't perform their role properly and are unable to mitigate. ...

Did I say that? Well tanks shouldn't do same amount of damage than a DPS and healers either… and if you look funny things back PLD got 3 rotations combos Rage of Halone, Gorging Blade and Royal Authority, merge in 2. So, they put blades rotation (on a none sense Magic rotation sequence ending). They remove the punishment of been in tank stance and put on passive skill. Also, some mitigation skills on that were cross-class. But people complain "why tanks should be punished. I prefer be in Sword Oath for deeps. :v" So basically comment the opposite of BancoBits.

Yes they do need more damage buttons. ...

No they don't need more damage buttons, what they need are more different kind of utilities and with that devs. Create content that they can actually feel useful and at same time u can't clear without a healer. Different proposal, but not the same.

Or tell me where goes the Casting. speed Skill Speed cards of the AST? Oh, no wait I know where they go NOW ALL ARE CRITS AND DPS! This solves the issue? NO? oh, wait Devs. downscale because HP pull is bigger… and cheese melding dungeons high dps issue... And now people didn't learn the lesson and ask more DPS more damage skills More mitigation.

Did you know that that is why we have glamour, right? Oh, no wait it is because you want actually to Cure in a heavy gear True, true.

for u 3.

Asking for more of the same problem and not proposal ANYTHING different from DPS because is the only thing they care DPS mentality, which I don't give a #$%. I want to have fun playing my PLD but as result ask any other PLD with this nonsense rotation we have skipping 1 Atun and other stuff, and even with that u lose your raid buffs potential.

As I said we should find a balance, and sorry, but that balance is NOT only raising potencies of any skill more. Certain jobs should be balance, this will lead to reduce some and increase others, and create or get back utilities that can be use on dungeons/trials/raids that max the winning of fun and not only be DPS talking.

[Arckrin]

Some content, not all. A large issue comes from some of the fight designs being undertuned. Even most tanks roll through most normal raid content only pressing one or two defensive GCD's. However in the savage fights and especially the later floors, the healing there IS required, which I assume is by design. Why do you think there is no enrage on normal fights? SE most likely designed it that was so if I get queued with freestyle DPS and no DPS Cure 1 healers we can still clear the fight. The EX's being cleared healerless to me is an undertuned fight, which it was. There were what, like 4 scary AoEs in all of EX1? Though again, that might be by design. It's not like Innocence or Titania were crazy difficult. ...

I agree totally with this, on Savage bosses hit like a truck and in normal u can survive even with no mitigation or the small one. (and if healer shield u, u don't lose HP AT ALL)
Plus remember that in HW they put VIT as main stat of the TANKS making PLD sht and WAR OP because of the Defiance HP pool but they didn't use because lost of dps :V

[BaconBits]

You should read what I say before in this post before answer me this. So at LEAST, you know my idea when I say they remove Protect, StoneSkin. as an example... And NO this change the fact that Healers already contribute with 1 skill the same amount DPS as a tank while having shields, regens and Cures. And then people asking more Gear xD Funny hilarious DPS mentality is nuts and that is why they downscale everything.



Did I say that? Well tanks shouldn't do same amount of damage than a DPS and healers either… and if you look funny things back PLD got 3 rotations combos Rage of Halone, Gorging Blade and Royal Authority, merge in 2. So, they put blades rotation (on a none sense Magic rotation sequence ending). They remove the punishment of been in tank stance and put on passive skill. Also, some mitigation skills on that were cross-class. But people complain "why tanks should be punished. I prefer be in Sword Oath for deeps. :v" So basically comment the opposite of BancoBits.



No they don't need more damage buttons, what they need are more different kind of utilities and with that devs. Create content that they can actually feel useful and at same time u can't clear without a healer. Different proposal, but not the same.

Or tell me where goes the Casting. speed Skill Speed cards of the AST? Oh, no wait I know where they go NOW ALL ARE CRITS AND DPS! This solves the issue? NO? oh, wait Devs. downscale because HP pull is bigger… and cheese melding dungeons high dps issue... And now people didn't learn the lesson and ask more DPS more damage skills More mitigation.

Did you know that that is why we have glamour, right? Oh, no wait it is because you want actually to Cure in a heavy gear True, true.

for u 3.

Asking for more of the same problem and not proposal ANYTHING different from DPS because is the only thing they care DPS mentality, which I don't give a #$%. I want to have fun playing my PLD but as result ask any other PLD with this nonsense rotation we have skipping 1 Atun and other stuff, and even with that u lose your raid buffs potential.

As I said we should find a balance, and sorry, but that balance is NOT only raising potencies of any skill more. Certain jobs should be balance, this will lead to reduce some and increase others, and create or get back utilities that can be use on dungeons/trials/raids that max the winning of fun and not only be DPS talking.

Uh uh, I read your little spiel on how Healers don't deserve more than one dps skill because you ran into some bad apples in Party Finder, and discarded your opinion into the trash where it belongs, hence the big fat bale of hay I lead my post off with. With your line of logic, bad tanks that don't know how to properly mitigate or rotate their cooldowns should have their DPS options reduced to spamming a single skill ad nauseam so they can actually focus on using their cooldowns. Sounds fair right? Right?