P1N Warrior solo kill

[Recon1o6]

While I agree that good healers have quit the role is undeniable, one of my best FC and raider is now DNC, and she was WHM…
Raiding in with random people in PF had showed me healers don't need more damage buttons… why? Simple, because in several runs they were focus on DPS and example easy P1S Ice/fire/death mech, and they were unable to put shield and regen on the party... because they were DPSing... My friend and I that we have WHM and SAGE up says dude if this continues we switch to healer…
So answer is NO healers don't need more buttons for DPS because with 1 they already became a green DPS without healing the party I don't want to imagine with 2 or 3…

Plus they are casters... what do you expect? A heavy armour on them? a light armour?

Yes they do need more damage buttons. For the simple reason that constantly pressing 1 button for 60-90% of your gcds from level 1 to 90 is not just boring but a turn off to new healers and veterans alike. Fighting the golem at level 10? 1 dot and 1 nuke. Fighting Raubahn? 1 dot and nuke. Fighting Zenos at the end of endwalker? 1 dot and fucking nuke.

Its not for balance, its for FUN. You know the main reason you play a game?

And yes, casters in light or heavy armour would be nice because 12 years of white robe or coat is too long. All the other roles can wear a variety from heavy plate, to jackets, to chainmail, to robes, but healers are stuck with cloth everything bar a few incredibly rare pieces. Not even full sets, just the odd piece like aurum boots or deepshadow chest. There's still only one helmet exclusive for healers.

They couldn't even leave an imported outfit from ff12 alone, no they just HAD to make it another dress.

[Alzinor]

Yes they do need more damage buttons. For the simple reason that constantly pressing 1 button for 60-90% of your gcds from level 1 to 90 is not just boring but a turn off to new healers and veterans alike. Fighting the golem at level 10? 1 dot and 1 nuke. Fighting Raubahn? 1 dot and nuke. Fighting Zenos at the end of endwalker? 1 dot and fucking nuke.

Its not for balance, its for FUN. You know the main reason you play a game?

And yes, casters in light or heavy armour would be nice because 12 years of white robe or coat is too long. All the other roles can wear a variety from heavy plate, to jackets, to chainmail, to robes, but healers are stuck with cloth everything bar a few incredibly rare pieces. Not even full sets, just the odd piece like aurum boots or deepshadow chest. There's still only one helmet exclusive for healers.

They couldn't even leave an imported outfit from ff12 alone, no they just HAD to make it another dress.

if you wanna have fun with a fun dps rotation, play a dps.

As a healer, you'll mainly have fun with your healing rotation which is your main job.

and atm you complain but sage have more than 2 buttons to dps and is fun to play on both dps and healing side.

[Deceptus]

if you wanna have fun with a fun dps rotation, play a dps.

This old, tired argument.

Wrote this well over 2 years ago and apparently is still relevant today.

[IttyBitty]

if you wanna have fun with a fun dps rotation, play a dps.

As a healer, you'll mainly have fun with your healing rotation which is your main job.

and atm you complain but sage have more than 2 buttons to dps and is fun to play on both dps and healing side.

Hey guys hold up I've gotta make sure that I don't mess up my healing rotation of *checks notes*....putting down asylum after the raidwide before going back to doing nothing until assize is off CD.

[Arckrin]

IMO, I think the main thing being argued for here is for Healers to at the very least not be rendered redundant in current content. They've already had large chunks of their kits removed (or in WHM's case didn't have much left even before SHB)... .

You should read what I say before in this post before answer me this. So at LEAST, you know my idea when I say they remove Protect, StoneSkin. as an example... And NO this change the fact that Healers already contribute with 1 skill the same amount DPS as a tank while having shields, regens and Cures. And then people asking more Gear xD Funny hilarious DPS mentality is nuts and that is why they downscale everything.

Tanks don't deserve more DPS either, they should really have less because so many of them can't perform their role properly and are unable to mitigate. ...

Did I say that? Well tanks shouldn't do same amount of damage than a DPS and healers either… and if you look funny things back PLD got 3 rotations combos Rage of Halone, Gorging Blade and Royal Authority, merge in 2. So, they put blades rotation (on a none sense Magic rotation sequence ending). They remove the punishment of been in tank stance and put on passive skill. Also, some mitigation skills on that were cross-class. But people complain "why tanks should be punished. I prefer be in Sword Oath for deeps. :v" So basically comment the opposite of BancoBits.

Yes they do need more damage buttons. ...

No they don't need more damage buttons, what they need are more different kind of utilities and with that devs. Create content that they can actually feel useful and at same time u can't clear without a healer. Different proposal, but not the same.

Or tell me where goes the Casting. speed Skill Speed cards of the AST? Oh, no wait I know where they go NOW ALL ARE CRITS AND DPS! This solves the issue? NO? oh, wait Devs. downscale because HP pull is bigger… and cheese melding dungeons high dps issue... And now people didn't learn the lesson and ask more DPS more damage skills More mitigation.

Did you know that that is why we have glamour, right? Oh, no wait it is because you want actually to Cure in a heavy gear True, true.

for u 3.

Asking for more of the same problem and not proposal ANYTHING different from DPS because is the only thing they care DPS mentality, which I don't give a #$%. I want to have fun playing my PLD but as result ask any other PLD with this nonsense rotation we have skipping 1 Atun and other stuff, and even with that u lose your raid buffs potential.

As I said we should find a balance, and sorry, but that balance is NOT only raising potencies of any skill more. Certain jobs should be balance, this will lead to reduce some and increase others, and create or get back utilities that can be use on dungeons/trials/raids that max the winning of fun and not only be DPS talking.

[BaconBits]

You should read what I say before in this post before answer me this. So at LEAST, you know my idea when I say they remove Protect, StoneSkin. as an example... And NO this change the fact that Healers already contribute with 1 skill the same amount DPS as a tank while having shields, regens and Cures. And then people asking more Gear xD Funny hilarious DPS mentality is nuts and that is why they downscale everything.



Did I say that? Well tanks shouldn't do same amount of damage than a DPS and healers either… and if you look funny things back PLD got 3 rotations combos Rage of Halone, Gorging Blade and Royal Authority, merge in 2. So, they put blades rotation (on a none sense Magic rotation sequence ending). They remove the punishment of been in tank stance and put on passive skill. Also, some mitigation skills on that were cross-class. But people complain "why tanks should be punished. I prefer be in Sword Oath for deeps. :v" So basically comment the opposite of BancoBits.



No they don't need more damage buttons, what they need are more different kind of utilities and with that devs. Create content that they can actually feel useful and at same time u can't clear without a healer. Different proposal, but not the same.

Or tell me where goes the Casting. speed Skill Speed cards of the AST? Oh, no wait I know where they go NOW ALL ARE CRITS AND DPS! This solves the issue? NO? oh, wait Devs. downscale because HP pull is bigger… and cheese melding dungeons high dps issue... And now people didn't learn the lesson and ask more DPS more damage skills More mitigation.

Did you know that that is why we have glamour, right? Oh, no wait it is because you want actually to Cure in a heavy gear True, true.

for u 3.

Asking for more of the same problem and not proposal ANYTHING different from DPS because is the only thing they care DPS mentality, which I don't give a #$%. I want to have fun playing my PLD but as result ask any other PLD with this nonsense rotation we have skipping 1 Atun and other stuff, and even with that u lose your raid buffs potential.

As I said we should find a balance, and sorry, but that balance is NOT only raising potencies of any skill more. Certain jobs should be balance, this will lead to reduce some and increase others, and create or get back utilities that can be use on dungeons/trials/raids that max the winning of fun and not only be DPS talking.

Uh uh, I read your little spiel on how Healers don't deserve more than one dps skill because you ran into some bad apples in Party Finder, and discarded your opinion into the trash where it belongs, hence the big fat bale of hay I lead my post off with. With your line of logic, bad tanks that don't know how to properly mitigate or rotate their cooldowns should have their DPS options reduced to spamming a single skill ad nauseam so they can actually focus on using their cooldowns. Sounds fair right? Right?

[Arckrin]

Uh uh, I read your little spiel on how Healers don't deserve more than one dps skill because you ran into some bad apples in Party Finder, and discarded your opinion into the trash where it belongs, hence the big fat bale of hay I lead my post off with. With your line of logic, bad tanks that don't know how to properly mitigate or rotate their cooldowns should have their DPS options reduced to spamming a single skill ad nauseam so they can actually focus on using their cooldowns. Sounds fair right? Right?

See what I mean?

"discarded your opinion into the trash where it belongs" You are the typical person that Says “I AM CORRECT AND YOUR OPINION IS TRASH” And then ask for respect from others when you don't respect what they are saying… Oh! And you magically put words that I didn't say or think… XD

Should I say it in other words? May be like this?

We NEED to BALANCE the trinity system! But balance doesn't mean doing it around DPS metric due to the same problem we are facing now. Don't you see that THAT IS WHY the downscale? It is hard to understand? More DPS doesn't mean = GOOD or BAD?

Want a history lesson of what since HW 2015 to now days balance around DPS has rip of interesting skills?
Or are you too new that don't know about the history of healers/tanks skills and says "who cares" and keep asking DEEPS... because is what others are asking?

[Nizzi]

Did I say that? Well tanks shouldn't do same amount of damage than a DPS and healers either… and if you look funny things back PLD got 3 rotations combos Rage of Halone, Gorging Blade and Royal Authority, merge in 2. So, they put blades rotation (on a none sense Magic rotation sequence ending).

Cool, but you really don't need any of that. I see so many tanks, Paladins especially that have 0 clue how to hit any of their mitigation buttons, and that's what you're here to do. You don't need 2 rotations, that's DPS bloat and prevents you from focusing on what you need to be doing, which is tanking. So really, they should reduce all tanks DPS rotation to 1 DoT and their enmity generator (Shield Lob, Grit, etc) and that's all you should have. You're not here to do DPSing, if you want to DPS you should go play a DPS. You're playing a TANK, so get to TANKING.

I want to have fun playing my PLD but as result ask any other PLD with this nonsense rotation we have skipping 1 Atun and other stuff, and even with that u lose your raid buffs potential.

Cool, you can have just as much fun playing your PLD when we strip out all that unneeded DPS bloat you have. You need to focus on tanking, so we'll give you more mitigation.
I'm sure you definitely think it's different for you and you'll go through the mental gymnastics of justifying why you're allowed to have fun and healers aren't, but I hope you can understand why what you're saying is nonsense. Healers aren't your enemy. Just because you get random healers that are bad, that's all it means. You ran into a bad player. I get tons of tanks who randomly turn off their tank stance, never use mitigations, single target trash mobs, etc, and I'm not saying you shouldn't get to have fun. Understand the double standard.

[Arckrin]

Cool, but you really don't need any of that. I see so many tanks, Paladins especially that have 0 clue how to hit any of their mitigation buttons, and that's what you're here to do. You don't need 2 rotations, that's DPS bloat and prevents you from focusing on what you need to be doing, which is tanking. So really, they should reduce all tanks DPS rotation to 1 DoT and their enmity generator (Shield Lob, Grit, etc) and that's all you should have. You're not here to do DPSing, if you want to DPS you should go play a DPS. You're playing a TANK, so get to TANKING.



Cool, you can have just as much fun playing your PLD when we strip out all that unneeded DPS bloat you have. You need to focus on tanking, so we'll give you more mitigation.
I'm sure you definitely think it's different for you and you'll go through the mental gymnastics of justifying why you're allowed to have fun and healers aren't, but I hope you can understand why what you're saying is nonsense. Healers aren't your enemy. Just because you get random healers that are bad, that's all it means. You ran into a bad player. I get tons of tanks who randomly turn off their tank stance, never use mitigations, single target trash mobs, etc, and I'm not saying you shouldn't get to have fun. Understand the double standard.

Look, I agree partially with you, and I am not discussing that they should do more DPS… Yet again, as I told BaconBits… that He/She wanted more dps skills on healer, and they are doing near the same output as Tanks with 1 skill… They SHOULD balance the content, not around the DPS meter. But around more other stuff (strategical example).

The thing as an example of my rotation is to illustrate the point, I agree partially about what you are saying. Because as a tank I should be paying more attention to around the environment and the boss skills, position (so all have room), mitigation, HP than my output of DPSing. And as I say yesterday here (page 19) "...People who know me knows… I prefer been the best tanky Def and be able to easy to heal to my healer, and of course put deeps on the enemies. I don't want to be the squishy tank butter that be sliced into with 1 hit."

Why is hard to understand that I don't want the OP tank Option... I don't know were you get that impression...?

Edit: Also I don't want the GOD HEALER option like in ShB that only use 4 skills on dungeon and half tools on Hard End content.

[Nizzi]

Look, I agree partially with you, and I am not discussing that they should do more DPS… Yet again, as I told BaconBits… that He/She wanted more dps skills on healer, and they are doing near the same output as Tanks with 1 skill… They SHOULD balance the content, not around the DPS meter. But around more other stuff (strategical example).

The thing as an example of my rotation is to illustrate the point, I agree partially about what you are saying. Because as a tank I should be paying more attention to around the environment and the boss skills, position (so all have room), mitigation, HP than my output of DPSing. And as I say yesterday here (page 19) "...People who know me knows… I prefer been the best tanky Def and be able to easy to heal to my healer, and of course put deeps on the enemies. I don't want to be the squishy tank butter that be sliced into with 1 hit."

You're misunderstanding what I and other healers are saying. We're not saying we want to do "higher numbers" in regards to talking about our DPS. We don't want to be overpowered with our DPS numbers. We're saying it's not fun to hit 1-1-1 over and over and twice a minute hitting our DoT as all we're allowed to do when there's no healing required (and there's a lot of that even in Savage). It's boring. Of course you can say that the solution is to make it where we need to heal more, and I don't think any healer disagrees necessarily, but realistically it will be easier to give us more to do during our downtime than it would to retune all content across the game to require more healing.
I've posted in this thread about how I don't want to nerf the tanks new sustain and healing capability. I'm glad that tanks are enjoying it and having fun, but compare that to what we all got this expansion; more bloated heals we don't need, and EW removed what little thought SCH and WHM had to do for thinking about when they healed.

I don't want to take away your fun or sustainability, though I know some do because it takes away our ability to heal. The problem isn't the tanks having their new tools, it's the fact that it further invalidates what they continually promise healers. We complain about not having fun in our downtime and the developers say "we're making things hit harder this expac, you'll need to heal more! That's why your single target rotation is 2-1-1-1" and we're in the same song and dance where we see that's not the case and healing is further invalidated and we're needed even less.

As for what they can do, just redistribute the potency of healers DPS actions across their wider variety of DPS actions. It would be more fun to manage two 35 potency DoTs with two separate timers than it is to have one 70 potency DoT of 30 seconds. I made a thread on the healer roles forum about how just adding Miasma back would make Scholar feel way better to play if you're actually curious of ideas on what they could do to make it more fun for us.

We're not asking for gigabrain complexity, we're not asking to do more damage, we're asking to have fun.