So this game has dps checks but we can't talk about our dps in game?

[Michieltjuhh]

I'm not sure how you managed to arrive to this but I'll bite. I never said that exclusively performing mechanics isn't the only sufficient method but just suggested that potentially sacrificing or foregoing some DPS to ensure players can successfully do the mechanic, be it to see the next mechanics in the encounter or to potentially clear then it's a perfectly logical course to take provided it falls within the constraints of meeting the DPS check. Apparently this wasn't clear enough, and I was addressing it in the particular case of the player in question, that it's a perfectly logical conclusion to arrive at provided they're able to clear the fight doing so. I'm fully aware earlier in progression where people don't have the luxury of gear benefits that situations will be less accommodating for this luxury. But once again, I was addressing it for this particular player and in the general sense...

That's fair enough, but then I'm unsure what you're trying to argue against. All he said is that people are fine if players who mess up mechanics get kicked, yet not when players who do bad DPS get kicked.

What is it with this community and jumping from one hyperbole to another in an attempt to try and counter argue. People are objectively already clearing these fights with several people in any given group being grey parsing

For what it's worth, if only 10 people clear the raid, someone's going to end up parsing grey, even if they're only 1% apart. This is of course not the case, but you'd be surprised at how many people (especially tanks and healers, DPS are usually the ones that die more) are performing so subpar at dealing damage that they'd set the new low many times over. And yet those people are joining PF groups for content they're woefully incapable of clearing at this stage unless hard carried, just because they're (somewhat) capable of dealing with the mechanics.

[Kaurhz]

That's fair enough, but then I'm unsure what you're trying to argue against. All he said is that people are fine if players who mess up mechanics get kicked, yet not when players who do bad DPS get kicked.


For what it's worth, if only 10 people clear the raid, someone's going to end up parsing grey, even if they're only 1% apart. This is of course not the case, but you'd be surprised at how many people (especially tanks and healers, DPS are usually the ones that die more) are performing so subpar at dealing damage that they'd set the new low many times over. And yet those people are joining PF groups for content they're woefully incapable of clearing at this stage unless hard carried, just because they're (somewhat) capable of dealing with the mechanics.

I'm arguing on the simple fact their input was being dismissed by another player in the group that was by their 'admission' slow to grasping mechanics or being consistent with them. Arguably in this case both of the players are just a different side of the same coin, so I don't think anyone is in the position to pull the credential card.

For what it's worth, if you have admitted that this isn't the case then pointing it out hypothetically in the first place is a little counterproductive when every given class already has beyond 20,000 logs on it. That's just basic statistics where a small sample size will have a significant impact on the meaning and result of the information.

I don't dispute that either. But in the same vein and as I have said to another player that is not a grounds for harassing or throwing around slurs at another player. If you think they won't be able to contribute meaningfully long-term, or even short-term and after providing suggestions then you simply remove them from the group and move on. If you want to gate keep your party accordingly that is your prerogative as the party or static lead. But again, in the case of this particular example with the Miqo'te it pretty much highlights perfectly well why suggestions on parsing in-game is always met with backlash, because some people just don't have the noblest of intentions with parsing. Do I think parsing has significant benefit for practically every player in the game? Of course. Do I expect that players will use this information responsibly and respectfully? Nah not a chance. I find a certain amount of irony with people that just want to give advice and constructive criticism, yet seemingly roll over into a ball in fear of being banned as a result of doing so.

[Michieltjuhh]

I'm arguing on the simple fact their input was being dismissed by another player in the group that was by their 'admission' slow to grasping mechanics or being consistent with them. Arguably in this case both of the players are just a different side of the same coin, so I don't think anyone is in the position to pull the credential card.

I don't think anyone was claiming that the stance the static took was fair, and at best very hypocritical. That didn't mean that what they said was inherently incorrect.

For what it's worth, if you have admitted that this isn't the case then pointing it out hypothetically in the first place is a little counterproductive when every given class already has beyond 20,000 logs on it. That's just basic statistics where a small sample size will have a significant impact on the meaning and result of the information.

I just meant that parsing grey doesn't necessarily mean bad. Right now, it generally already does, like I mentioned with these PF abusers trying to set new lows. Though on the last fight grey still means relatively adequate, so long as it's in the upper 20s.

I don't dispute that either. But in the same vein and as I have said to another player that is not a grounds for harassing or throwing around slurs at another player. If you think they won't be able to contribute meaningfully long-term, or even short-term and after providing suggestions then you simply remove them from the group and move on. If you want to gate keep your party accordingly that is your prerogative as the party or static lead. But again, in the case of this particular example with the Miqo'te it pretty much highlights perfectly well why suggestions on parsing in-game is always met with backlash, because some people just don't have the noblest of intentions with parsing. Do I think parsing has significant benefit for practically every player in the game? Of course. Do I expect that players will use this information responsibly and respectfully? Nah not a chance. I find a certain amount of irony with people that just want to give advice and constructive criticism, yet seemingly roll over into a ball in fear of being banned as a result of doing so.

Someone else (who, ironically, parsed 100% on that selfsame fight) pointed out that the stance of the static was, in a vacuum, correct, since that person did get 'carried' to a kill due to a too weak personal performance, that wouldn't at all suffice for the last fight(s) since the carry potential of others is lower. If your parses are progressively worse per boss, it means that your DPS is consistently low (the amount of lower DPS parses gradually decrease as higher DPS is required), meaning that for the final fight(s), this same DPS that was pulled off on all the previous bosses is going to be inadequate. This time, it was constructive criticism and by someone with the credentials to give it.

This was then dismissed as "bullshit" and "elitist gatekeeping" by the Miqo'te. Criticism taken well, right there. Which leads to the problem people have: others don't want criticism. They want to get carried and they want you to like doing it.