So this game has dps checks but we can't talk about our dps in game?

[StriderShinryu]

And the problem there isn't the 'elitist' or 'casual' part of the terminology, but rather the 'toxic' bit. This is a multiplayer game; treating your fellow player with respect means not clubbing them over the head or taunting them with parses or whatnot... but it also means treating the time of others with some respect as well.

Clipped most of that out, but it's 100% true and pretty much perfectly stated. Regardless of what end of the pool you swim in, the problem is toxic behaviour and attitudes. I could go on, but I'd just be repeating the excellent quoted post.

[kizumiayamame]

They expect you to treat other players with respect in this game. If you want to treat others like garbage WoW is a great fit for you.

Expecting people to perform at the minimum standard isn't treating them like garbage, I don't even know where you pulled that one from but ok! If you wanna play patty cake with people in Sastasha then go ahead lol

[Kolaina]

They expect you to treat other players with respect in this game. If you want to treat others like garbage WoW is a great fit for you.

Everyone who says something I don’t like must go back to WoW. Implying I am a better, kinder person than WoW players. Simultaneously acting as bad or worse than that same community I am condemning.
Makes sense

[Jybril]

Well with the clown fiesta this thread has been, I guess it kinda proves that we shouldn't have this nonsense.

I already had an ex-friend parse me on some random dungeon as a WHM and berated my PLD friend over our numbers back in HW.
He's an ex friend for that reason alone. Keep that elitist BS away from this game. It's just a tool for everyone to become aholes.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Well with the clown fiesta this thread has been, I guess it kinda proves that we shouldn't have this nonsense.

I already had an ex-friend parse me on some random dungeon as a WHM and berated my PLD friend over our numbers back in HW.
He's an ex friend for that reason alone. Keep that elitist BS away from this game. It's just a tool for everyone to become aholes.

So you mean this 'ex-friend' won't be an a**hole to you nor your PLD friend if the 'calculator' never existed?

Nice thought process.

Those players has always existed. If they're an a**hole to the core, then it's only a matter of time till they behave like one, with or without tools.

[Jybril]

Nevermind, not gonna get banned because this is too much of a Hot Topic.
Fight the good fight folks lmao.
*Tips fedora*

[Kolaina]

Well with the clown fiesta this thread has been, I guess it kinda proves that we shouldn't have this nonsense.

I already had an ex-friend parse me on some random dungeon as a WHM and berated my PLD friend over our numbers back in HW.
He's an ex friend for that reason alone. Keep that elitist BS away from this game. It's just a tool for everyone to become aholes.

It’s already been pointed out that the anti parse side of this thread have been the not so civil type. Hard to see though when you hold a bias towards one side of the discussion

[LittleImp]

It’s already been pointed out that the anti parse side of this thread have been the not so civil type. Hard to see though when you hold a bias towards one side of the discussion

It has a lot to do with the underlying motivators behind either side of the issue.

You'll find that the anti-logging crowd tends to be much more emotionally motivated, and it ends up infecting a lot of their posts with a really angry tone. A lot of the time they aren't even explicitly anti-parser, they're just more broadly anti-accountability and you'll see them spewing the same angry rhetoric in posts about unsolicited advice or self-improvement. It's an issue of ego and self-worth; If one operates under the constant assumption that they are skilled or better than other people, their ego will be threatened any time someone exposes information that indicates the contrary. Just look at the person earlier who was trying to imply that greylogging still somehow puts them in the top 8% of players. There's also the fact that the vast majority of them don't even participate in the content these types of threads are usually about, but still can't resist participating in the discussion regardless. Not to mention, a lot of them seem to be people that have allowed one bad experience to define their entire outlook, which is a fairly irrational position. The person you were responding to is calling people clowns and elitists in large part due to a bad experience they had in Heavensward, which released almost 7 years ago.

On the other hand, a lot of people that are supportive of using logs in these threads tend to be speaking from a place of significant experience, and generally just try to lay out rational reasons why holding people accountable is important in the right circumstances. Most of them even openly acknowledge that parse shaming does in fact exist, but isn't nearly common enough to justify some of the opinions expressed in this thread. Most of them acknowledge that applying overly high standards in casual content is stupid. For a lot of them, it's about optimizing manhours and energy spent, rather than some fixation on gatekeeping or posturing. Wanting, or helping people to improve is antithetical to Elitism. Elitists are the types that constantly move the goalposts to make sure you never reach their 'level', or constantly define alternative standards for what it means to be 'good' at something (something which is ironically very popular amongst the anti-elitist types).

[AbysmalDuck]

It may be some people's egos that get in the way, but anytime I've ever had someone offer advice in my time in the game, it has always been either negative or shorthand. Shorthanded advice appears to be less meaningful and more of a putdown. My point is, I think there is just a communication issue. When people type in chat "job/name didn't do such-and-such", this isn't helpful and often destructive to the conversation. Putting together a sentence that shows you put effort and thought into it, may actually be taken different that "why didn't you job action".

[Waliel]

Fun fact, exact BLM Astral Phase DPS multiplier for fire spells is not shown in game anywhere at all. Without datamining/parser you would not know its 40%/60%/80%.

It's not a very fun fact in the sense that AF is not a hard thing to test without parsers or datamining. I did it back in ARR before ACT and whatever the other short lived parser was even existed. Granted, the game should just tell you that and a lot of other things. Not like hiding the values of important stuff somehow makes the game better, or at least I don't think it does.

The game is extremely vague on a lot of things, community had basically to reverse engineer the used formulas. Still Excel spreadsheets used to calculate rotations/gear DPS for various jobs are approximations and even DoT damage calculation used by ACT is still not 100% correct due the way server sends the information so it has to estimate it.

You excel for potency per second and higher PPS is higher DPS. What it spits out is what you get in game, assuming it's valid and all that jazz. What that converts to DPS is an approximation, but the PPS isn't. While what you personally come up with might not be the rotation, it's absolutely possible to excel out the optimal one.