So this game has dps checks but we can't talk about our dps in game?

[Atelier-Bagur]

They were probably salty because you got carried through the fight by simply happening to join the right party at the right time. Your low damage and mechanical consistency is very likely a result of sacrificing your rotation/uptime to focus on mechanics, and if everyone in the party played like you, a clear would likely not be mathematically possible. If you haven't optimized a fight to a degree where you're actually pushing your fair share of damage, you haven't really "learned" the fight imo.

For reference, if you're doing 10% tank damage in P3S, you're something like 600+ dps off of what is widely considered to be the minimum expectation for a Tank in p4s. That's a HUGE gap, and unfairly offloads a lot of strain onto other players to make up the difference.

Oh boy here we go...

[LittleImp]

Oh boy here we go...

Do hard numeric requirements on a video game terrify you that much?

They exist. You have to meet them. It's a team game, and it's disrespectful to other people (especially strangers) if you enter a space where you are knowingly unable to contribute to meeting that hard-coded, minimum requirement. I'm just speaking frankly from a place of experience, and trying to explain why those people may have felt the way they did about the situation. But hey, this is a thread full of weirdly abrasive "casual" players making ignorant statements about a community formed around content they've barely if ever participated in. I think my favorite has been the extremely laughable "Addons killed WoW" historical revisionism.

P4S phase 1 has one of the tightest DPS checks this game has seen in recent years. Recruiting someone to your static that you know is unable to contribute to that check is just asking for more drama later.

[Atelier-Bagur]

Do hard numeric requirements on a video game terrify you that much?

They exist. You have to meet them. It's a team game, and it's disrespectful to other people (especially strangers) if you enter a space where you are knowingly unable to contribute to meeting that hard-coded, minimum requirement. I'm just speaking frankly from a place of experience, and trying to explain why those people may have felt the way they did about the situation. But hey, this is a thread full of weirdly abrasive "casual" players making ignorant statements about a community formed around content they've barely if ever participated in. I think my favorite has been the extremely laughable "Addons killed WoW" historical revisionism.

P4S phase 1 has one of the tightest DPS checks this game has seen in recent years. Recruiting someone to your static that you know is unable to contribute to that check is just asking for more drama later.

I cant say anything about P4S since I havent done it, but it just feels silly and childish to pin all the blame on a single person when its like you said a group effort.

[LittleImp]

I cant say anything about P4S since I havent done it, but it just feels silly and childish to pin all the blame on a single person when its like you said a group effort.

Let's make a hypothetical scenario here.

8 people have to deal 2.5k each to meet a minimum requirement of 20k.

7 people deal 2.6k, 1 person deals 1.7k, preventing the group from achieving the minimum requirement. This may go on for hours at a time, maybe even days, or weeks.

While trying to find a solution to this problem, is it more 'fair' to ask the people who are doing 2.6k to work even harder, or to ask the person doing 1.7k to improve or leave?

[Atelier-Bagur]

Let's make a hypothetical scenario here.

8 people have to deal 2.5k each to meet a minimum requirement of 20k.

7 people deal 2.6k, 1 person deals 1.7k, preventing the group from achieving the minimum requirement. This may go on for hours at a time, maybe even days, or weeks.

While trying to find a solution to this problem, is it more 'fair' to ask the people who are doing 2.6k to work even harder, or to ask the person doing 1.7k to improve or leave?

Better question is, if this "hypothetical scenario" is the be all end all scenario required for P4S. As in, the fight is completely designed for only the most optimal jobs only, for the most optimal players to do their perfect rotations. If not then this scenario is entirely pointless.

[Michieltjuhh]

Better question is, if this "hypothetical scenario" is the be all end all scenario required for P4S. As in, the fight is completely designed for only the most optimal jobs only, for the most optimal players to do their perfect rotations. If not then this scenario is entirely pointless.

It is quite tight, until people start outgearing fights. Even in P3S the damage check was quite tight in the first couple of weeks. The patch certainly made things more lenient, but a lot of people don't want to - and shouldn't have to - wait for major buffs and gear increases, just because PF is full of players who don't want to play properly but still want to get kills.

[Amon-ster]

Better question is, if this "hypothetical scenario" is the be all end all scenario required for P4S. As in, the fight is completely designed for only the most optimal jobs only, for the most optimal players to do their perfect rotations. If not then this scenario is entirely pointless.

Not exactly. See in this hypothetical situation, 2.5k DPS isn't even high. It's like, average at best. The person doing 1.7k is just doing TERRIBLE. XIV fights aren't designed for optimal top DPS gamers. They're just made for people who actually know what they're doing. And sadly, the game as a whole doesn't really teach you how to play.

[Euphares]

I cant say anything about P4S since I havent done it, but it just feels silly and childish to pin all the blame on a single person when its like you said a group effort.

A group is made up of eight individuals.

If seven people are playing at at least 80% efficiency and one person at 20% efficiency. The takeaway isn't and shouldn't be "well none of us were playing at max efficiency so we all have areas to improve." It is going to be "Why are you doing way worse than everyone else?" (Perhaps worded more politely.)


I'm not sure why people are so against being the weak link, it happens to everyone at least once, sometimes it isn't a group issue, sometimes it is just one person bogging the group down, and everyone should be prepared to handle being that person with grace. Its one thing if the group is treating you poorly, but more often than not in my raiding experience people just don't want to or don't handle playing bad well at all.


Ironically enough, some people casual or otherwise really do think they're above criticism/mistakes, and that's why any discussion that dispells this delusion is met with such harsh pushback.

[Michieltjuhh]

Its one thing if the group is treating you poorly, but more often than not in my raiding experience people just don't want to or don't handle playing bad well at all.


Ironically enough, some people casual or otherwise really do think they're above criticism/mistakes, and that's why any discussion that dispells this delusion is met with such harsh pushback.

If I didn't know any better I'd say you were referring to someone from the last two pages. And I approve.

[Kaurhz]

A group is made up of eight individuals.

If seven people are playing at at least 80% efficiency and one person at 20% efficiency. The takeaway isn't and shouldn't be "well none of us were playing at max efficiency so we all have areas to improve." It is going to be "Why are you doing way worse than everyone else?" (Perhaps worded more politely.)


I'm not sure why people are so against being the weak link, it happens to everyone at least once, sometimes it isn't a group issue, sometimes it is just one person bogging the group down, and everyone should be prepared to handle being that person with grace. Its one thing if the group is treating you poorly, but more often than not in my raiding experience people just don't want to or don't handle playing bad well at all.


Ironically enough, some people casual or otherwise really do think they're above criticism/mistakes, and that's why any discussion that dispells this delusion is met with such harsh pushback.

People are against it because it is for that individual group to decide whether they want to continue on with that weak link, and as is the case with all things you really ought to delve into encounters. You're juggling both the difficulty of an encounter and the requirement of pushing a sufficient amount of DPS. They are only going to get better by doing such. In the particular case of this Miqo'te it is for the team they cleared with to judge them and pass criticisms. If their feedback is being shutdown cuz parse then that's incredibly conceited, especially if they're only trying to offer valid feedback or criticism, and especially in the event that the other group hasn't even progressed that far. If someone sacrifices some DPS to ensure they're able to do all the mechanics adequately enough then that's a perfectly valid solution with merit. - It's just as bad when someone gets overly full of themselves and either greeds and causes a wipe, or outright fails a mechanic. People shouldn't be using a singular clear as the sole indicative measure of player skill or willingness to learn, but rather observe a trend wherein the player still fails to improve over the course of several kills.

It is precisely because of people like they were playing with as to why people are pushing against the idea of it - "Well ur feedback is invalid cuz you have a grey parse" - All feedback and opinions should be treated equally and objectively. Not by someone who is overly vein.

I think there's a prevalent problem in this community in that the way they present the criticism or pointing out of mistakes is.. Questionable, as exhibited by the sheer fact that people are under some false illusion that presenting a criticism will result in a ban. Something actually mentioned barely a couple pages ago on this very thread.

Oh and before someone gleefully comes out with the "Do u even raid bro" - I'm just going to counter that beforehand by saying irrelevant when many of these mentalities permeate into the more casual content, in addition to the simple fact that many of these mentalities are not just exclusive to FFXIV but apply to practically any multiplayer game. So don't bother coming with that.