So this game has dps checks but we can't talk about our dps in game?

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

No thanks. This just means we actually get to save them after every single mistake rather than eventually being rid of that burden. Which means that if we, the healers, play well, we'll just hit enrage with the boss on 50% health and realize we just wasted away more than 10+ minutes of our lives with absolutely no chance of a kill.

I'll take an early wipe due to vuln stacks leading into a oneshot over that any day.

I swear I had a huge suspicions the dev swapped vuln stacks into damage downs cause they dislike how we had elaborate, braindead ways to cheese mechanics. I.e. the soccer strat back in Eden Verse era.

[Absurdity]

I swear I had a huge suspicions the dev swapped vuln stacks into damage downs cause they dislike how we had elaborate, braindead ways to cheese mechanics. I.e. the soccer strat back in Eden Verse era.

If they want us to not cheese terrible mechanics then maybe they should stop making terrible mechanics.

[elioaiko]

I've been wanting Vulns to be Damage Downs every since they first appeared.

Vulns are only a Damage penalty when an unavoidable mechanic gets to one shot thresholds of stack count.

The only player suffering from other players mistakes is the Healer, and that needs to change lol.
Just make it like 3% Damage Down per stack but exponential growth. 3>6>12>24>48>96>cap
Make the DPS who want to fluff their numbers suffer instead.

Exactly, I'm glad that it's being used now. Vuln stacks serve to only punish healers and tanks. DPS panic and expect you to fix their mistakes. It's fine if it was an honest mistake or planned (with consent Ofc), I'm not a playing healer to bandage and hold your hand. I'm here to heal what you can't dodge, not fix your mistakes.

And for once, let someone blame the DPS for once. I'm so tired of the blame constantly being placed on the healers and tanks when any wipe happens just because they can't be bothered to do their rotation properly but expect supports to protect them AND dps as well–pull your own weight.

Damage downs will make anyone realize that at the end of the day it was THEIR mistake and are paying for it. Yes I'm a tired healer main.

[Michieltjuhh]

Exactly, I'm glad that it's being used now. Vuln stacks serve to only punish healers and tanks. DPS panic and expect you to fix their mistakes. It's fine if it was an honest mistake or planned (with consent Ofc), I'm not a playing healer to bandage and hold your hand. I'm here to heal what you can't dodge, not fix your mistakes.

And for once, let someone blame the DPS for once. I'm so tired of the blame constantly being placed on the healers and tanks when any wipe happens just because they can't be bothered to do their rotation properly but expect supports to protect them AND dps as well–pull your own weight.

Damage downs will make anyone realize that at the end of the day it was THEIR mistake and are paying for it. Yes I'm a tired healer main.

I don't understand how you can say that in a thread that is exactly aimed at the hypocrisy of damage checks existing in a game where you're not allowed to talk, or even know, about damage.

Damage downs instead of vulns will do the opposite of making them realize they made a mistake. If damage downs were the new vulns, healers could keep the dps alive through any mechanic that isn't a natural one shot. This means that, in a scenario with a great healer, you'd hypothetically hit enrage with the dps having never died. With damage not being shown in any way except third party programs that are forbidden to be spoken of in-game, how are you ever going to explain to the dps that he's the problem, since in the no-vuln scenario, he never died and thus was "doing his rotation for the entire duration of the fight"?

Sure, you could try to explain that those 15 stacks of damage down they had were stopping them from doing.. any damage at all, likely. But I'll argue any time that dying is a much better way to convince them that they're not doing damage.

[Connor]

This is just another example of the developers absolute refusal to compromise in any sort of way.

You can’t see your dps or any kind of ‘battle output’ for that matter under any circumstances unless you’re using a third-party program that’s only available to 50% of the player base (assuming it’s 50/50 between PC/PS4 which it probably isn’t but let’s say it is lol). As a PS4 player it’s infuriated me to no end that I’m not allowed to see the one and only value that actually matters in combat . The only option is to find a PC player and have them do it for me.

If I didn’t need to know a rotation or my damage output I wouldn’t care about personal dps really. But I very obviously do need to know these things regardless of class, because it doesn’t matter how much you support/heal/whatever the party - you deal your maximised dps using the rotation you’re just magically supposed to know without any outside knowledge or you’re do it wrong. Despite how blatantly contradictory some rotations are (e.g give Bloodletter three charge suggesting you can use it more often, now you ignore it for an entire song to line charges up with burst)

They don’t want this program to be used openly because it can lead to issues with harassment or whatever. Which I believe is totally the right way to go about it. Despite what people will defend to the grave just because someone is ‘bad at the game’ it doesn’t mean they deserve harassment or bullying.

Then the devs add dps checks to like everything that doesn’t have ‘normal’ in the name (normal players are too dumb for dps checks? Seems an unfair presumption…). So obviously people want to see their dps. Except they’re not allowed because potential harassment.

But, if they had say, Stone, Sky, Sea show a ‘total dps’ output that nobody else can see in any way (and isn’t an indicator of how we’ll they’d do in actual content anyway because mechanics)…surely that would make all parties happy whilst minimising the risk? You can get a general idea of how well your doing in literally the only metric that matters in the entire game but it’s not publicly displayed for anyone else to see.

I mean, I genuinely don’t see how making a third-party program ‘illegal’ then saying ‘you can use it if you want just don’t say’ is in any way better than just making a budget-version yourself so you can control how it’s used? Surely if it came from SE itself they’d have better control over how it is or isn’t used?

[Kolsykol]

This is just another example of the developers absolute refusal to compromise in any sort of way.

I think that allowing people to use it but taking action against those using it to harass is an excellent compromise...
I haven't actually heard of anyone getting banned for using it even on Stream.
When someone has been banned for it it's because they acted like complete asshats about it.

[Sylve]

I think that allowing people to use it but taking action against those using it to harass is an excellent compromise...

Uhhh. You know this is what they're doing as of now, right?

You will not be banned if you install a parser and check your numbers.
You WILL be banned if you speak up in game proclaiming that you have a parser running or harrass players with that information.

Its honestly the best compromise they can do.
The moment they make numbers available in an official capacity, players use it to harrass.

The devs don't want a player focus on raw numbers. Having those numbers shoved in your face in the UI is not useful anywhere outside of Savage.

The way it is right now, You can parse if you want to. There are communities in game that don't report each other for using or discussing parse numbers in their private channels.
The only way the devs can police the use of a parser to stop harrassment is to make them technically illegal.

The system works perfectly find as it is right now. Console players just need to find a friend or FC/LS to have the numbers revealed to them via discord.

What if your group's dps is just too low to clear even when you dont get damage downs or deaths? How do you plan on figuring out why you didnt clear then?

If you hit enrage, the total party DPS is too low.
Duty Recorder exists
Simple screen recordings exist.

DPS comes from item level combined with executing your rotation.
If your item level is appropriate for the content, but the team still hits enrage, the problem is your rotation.
SOmething as simple as aligning raid buffs all the way to just not missing GCDs while dealing with mechanics.

A simple video from your perspective to inspect (Duty Recorder etc) your play is enough to identify areas you can improve.
Things you miss in the moment can be seen when looking back on a video. ANd those things you identify as problem areas can be improved upon.

All a parser will do is tell you what the Enrage already told you. Not enough damage.

[Michieltjuhh]

Having those numbers shoved in your face in the UI is not useful anywhere outside of Savage.

So.. have it be available through the game once you enter high-end content? Remove the taboo of talking about it during high-end content?

The system works perfectly find as it is right now.

No. It does not. It has been explained plenty of times in this thread why it does not, and you yourself, within 9 lines of text, contradicted this already.

Duty Recorder exists
Simple screen recordings exist.

Self-improvement only, and even then it's merely speculation, since you don't actually know whether what you're doing is correct or not without a summary of total damage dealt, compared to others.

A simple video from your perspective to inspect (Duty Recorder etc) your play is enough to identify areas you can improve.
Things you miss in the moment can be seen when looking back on a video. ANd those things you identify as problem areas can be improved upon.

Ah yes, the good old "if you improve yourself, the 7 other players in your raid will automatically improve as well, I promise!" logic. What about the scenario where my personal play is pitch perfect and yet we're hitting enrage?

All a parser will do is tell you what the Enrage already told you. Not enough damage.

Yep. You know the beautiful part of it? It tells you WHERE that damage is missing. Since, you know, it's not a single player game, even if you seem to think it is.

[Rolder50]

All a parser will do is tell you what the Enrage already told you. Not enough damage.

Incorrect. You can upload the parse to XIV Analysis and it can look at your log and tell you exactly what you are doing wrong. For example, it will show you incorrect weaves, missed combos, unspent resources, cooldowns left inactive for too long, etc etc.

[Saraide]

Uhhh. You know this is what they're doing as of now, right?

You will not be banned if you install a parser and check your numbers.
You WILL be banned if you speak up in game proclaiming that you have a parser running or harrass players with that information.

Its honestly the best compromise they can do.
The moment they make numbers available in an official capacity, players use it to harrass.

The devs don't want a player focus on raw numbers. Having those numbers shoved in your face in the UI is not useful anywhere outside of Savage.

The way it is right now, You can parse if you want to. There are communities in game that don't report each other for using or discussing parse numbers in their private channels.
The only way the devs can police the use of a parser to stop harrassment is to make them technically illegal.

The system works perfectly find as it is right now. Console players just need to find a friend or FC/LS to have the numbers revealed to them via discord.



If you hit enrage, the total party DPS is too low.
Duty Recorder exists
Simple screen recordings exist.

DPS comes from item level combined with executing your rotation.
If your item level is appropriate for the content, but the team still hits enrage, the problem is your rotation.
SOmething as simple as aligning raid buffs all the way to just not missing GCDs while dealing with mechanics.

A simple video from your perspective to inspect (Duty Recorder etc) your play is enough to identify areas you can improve.
Things you miss in the moment can be seen when looking back on a video. ANd those things you identify as problem areas can be improved upon.

All a parser will do is tell you what the Enrage already told you. Not enough damage.

So you would record the entire fight and then specifically look at each player's rotation to see if they are doing a good rotation and aligning buffs correctly? You are describing a parser.