So this game has dps checks but we can't talk about our dps in game?

[Katt_Felista]

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That static couldn't even go past adds on p3S and i did clear P1S and P2S first week without them, when i joined that static they were pretty slow to learn and they still managed to criticize me for not being pentamelded and doing average to 23% of the overall damage ranking other tanks that would clear P2S, those fights don't really have that much of a "crazy" requirement for dps check or down. That group of persons were just having a huge ego / elitist fit, they allowed the members to do their own training on their free time during the week, and after the third day of raiding with the static, they allow you to go and clear the fight we don't in static.

When i said i cleared p3S it all started going very wrong with them, they begun to be very salty and agressive on the discord , then look into "details" and my gear, kind of mocking the fact i wasn't pentameld, that i did around a 9 to 10% of overall war ranking damage that cleared this P3S fight previously, so not only they used parses / logs to criticize but they also told me that it didn't mean anythingbecause i wasn't logged higher, while they themselves take AGES to learn a fight and it's patterns, positions and all that, while i would stay silent on these issues and keep coming in the static and try to help with some advices on the fight.

They never stated their static was an "elitist" parse / log and "ranking progression" fflog or anything type of static in their recruitement, all they had as an announcement is that they needed a tank to progress into savage raiding.

So yeah, doing that after the fact is pretty shit on their part. Pretty sure that their attitude was that , they were just disgusted that "me" a supposedly "idiot" or average player can down this fight and learn it much faster than them while they still can't figure out how to go past the adds that end of the week, and we were on P3S for 2 weeks with that static when i would already consistently reach the end of the fight / enrages on week 2 so, and i still kept coming into the training even tho i was seeing that it was going very slow, i did not even at one point expressed my opinion on this at any point about the static tho, but when i did clear it, all hell broke loose and the piling on / insults and "look at your gear, look at your parse man, yeah you cleared it but it's very low on the statistics dude , you are a sh*t player" .

The only thing that bother people like that is that average players with just some good will and perseverance, consistency, CAN actually clear these fights, there is no need for gatekeeping through ultra over the top elitist criterias.

There is just a community of gatekeepers and rmt'ers that would like to make you believe you have to do all this B.S. to clear these fight so they can parasitically live off from the game rmt's.

[LittleImp]

When i said i cleared p3S it all started going very wrong with them, they begun to be very salty and agressive on the discord , then look into "details" and my gear, kind of mocking the fact i wasn't pentameld, that i did around a 9 to 10% of overall war ranking damage that cleared this P3S fight previously, so not only they used parses / logs to criticize but they also told me that it didn't mean anythingbecause i wasn't logged higher, while they themselves take AGES to learn a fight and it's patterns, positions and all that, while i would stay silent on these issues and keep coming in the static and try to help with some advices on the fight.

They were probably salty because you got carried through the fight by simply happening to join the right party at the right time. Your low damage and mechanical consistency is very likely a result of sacrificing your rotation/uptime to focus on mechanics, and if everyone in the party played like you, a clear would likely not be mathematically possible. If you haven't optimized a fight to a degree where you're actually pushing your fair share of damage, you haven't really "learned" the fight imo.

For reference, if you're doing 10% tank damage in P3S, you're something like 600+ dps off of what is widely considered to be the minimum expectation for a Tank in p4s. That's a HUGE gap, and unfairly offloads a lot of strain onto other players to make up the difference.

[Atelier-Bagur]

They were probably salty because you got carried through the fight by simply happening to join the right party at the right time. Your low damage and mechanical consistency is very likely a result of sacrificing your rotation/uptime to focus on mechanics, and if everyone in the party played like you, a clear would likely not be mathematically possible. If you haven't optimized a fight to a degree where you're actually pushing your fair share of damage, you haven't really "learned" the fight imo.

For reference, if you're doing 10% tank damage in P3S, you're something like 600+ dps off of what is widely considered to be the minimum expectation for a Tank in p4s. That's a HUGE gap, and unfairly offloads a lot of strain onto other players to make up the difference.

Oh boy here we go...

[LittleImp]

Oh boy here we go...

Do hard numeric requirements on a video game terrify you that much?

They exist. You have to meet them. It's a team game, and it's disrespectful to other people (especially strangers) if you enter a space where you are knowingly unable to contribute to meeting that hard-coded, minimum requirement. I'm just speaking frankly from a place of experience, and trying to explain why those people may have felt the way they did about the situation. But hey, this is a thread full of weirdly abrasive "casual" players making ignorant statements about a community formed around content they've barely if ever participated in. I think my favorite has been the extremely laughable "Addons killed WoW" historical revisionism.

P4S phase 1 has one of the tightest DPS checks this game has seen in recent years. Recruiting someone to your static that you know is unable to contribute to that check is just asking for more drama later.

[Atelier-Bagur]

Do hard numeric requirements on a video game terrify you that much?

They exist. You have to meet them. It's a team game, and it's disrespectful to other people (especially strangers) if you enter a space where you are knowingly unable to contribute to meeting that hard-coded, minimum requirement. I'm just speaking frankly from a place of experience, and trying to explain why those people may have felt the way they did about the situation. But hey, this is a thread full of weirdly abrasive "casual" players making ignorant statements about a community formed around content they've barely if ever participated in. I think my favorite has been the extremely laughable "Addons killed WoW" historical revisionism.

P4S phase 1 has one of the tightest DPS checks this game has seen in recent years. Recruiting someone to your static that you know is unable to contribute to that check is just asking for more drama later.

I cant say anything about P4S since I havent done it, but it just feels silly and childish to pin all the blame on a single person when its like you said a group effort.

[LittleImp]

I cant say anything about P4S since I havent done it, but it just feels silly and childish to pin all the blame on a single person when its like you said a group effort.

Let's make a hypothetical scenario here.

8 people have to deal 2.5k each to meet a minimum requirement of 20k.

7 people deal 2.6k, 1 person deals 1.7k, preventing the group from achieving the minimum requirement. This may go on for hours at a time, maybe even days, or weeks.

While trying to find a solution to this problem, is it more 'fair' to ask the people who are doing 2.6k to work even harder, or to ask the person doing 1.7k to improve or leave?

[Atelier-Bagur]

Let's make a hypothetical scenario here.

8 people have to deal 2.5k each to meet a minimum requirement of 20k.

7 people deal 2.6k, 1 person deals 1.7k, preventing the group from achieving the minimum requirement. This may go on for hours at a time, maybe even days, or weeks.

While trying to find a solution to this problem, is it more 'fair' to ask the people who are doing 2.6k to work even harder, or to ask the person doing 1.7k to improve or leave?

Better question is, if this "hypothetical scenario" is the be all end all scenario required for P4S. As in, the fight is completely designed for only the most optimal jobs only, for the most optimal players to do their perfect rotations. If not then this scenario is entirely pointless.

[Euphares]

I cant say anything about P4S since I havent done it, but it just feels silly and childish to pin all the blame on a single person when its like you said a group effort.

A group is made up of eight individuals.

If seven people are playing at at least 80% efficiency and one person at 20% efficiency. The takeaway isn't and shouldn't be "well none of us were playing at max efficiency so we all have areas to improve." It is going to be "Why are you doing way worse than everyone else?" (Perhaps worded more politely.)


I'm not sure why people are so against being the weak link, it happens to everyone at least once, sometimes it isn't a group issue, sometimes it is just one person bogging the group down, and everyone should be prepared to handle being that person with grace. Its one thing if the group is treating you poorly, but more often than not in my raiding experience people just don't want to or don't handle playing bad well at all.


Ironically enough, some people casual or otherwise really do think they're above criticism/mistakes, and that's why any discussion that dispells this delusion is met with such harsh pushback.

[Michieltjuhh]

Its one thing if the group is treating you poorly, but more often than not in my raiding experience people just don't want to or don't handle playing bad well at all.


Ironically enough, some people casual or otherwise really do think they're above criticism/mistakes, and that's why any discussion that dispells this delusion is met with such harsh pushback.

If I didn't know any better I'd say you were referring to someone from the last two pages. And I approve.

[Kaurhz]

A group is made up of eight individuals.

If seven people are playing at at least 80% efficiency and one person at 20% efficiency. The takeaway isn't and shouldn't be "well none of us were playing at max efficiency so we all have areas to improve." It is going to be "Why are you doing way worse than everyone else?" (Perhaps worded more politely.)


I'm not sure why people are so against being the weak link, it happens to everyone at least once, sometimes it isn't a group issue, sometimes it is just one person bogging the group down, and everyone should be prepared to handle being that person with grace. Its one thing if the group is treating you poorly, but more often than not in my raiding experience people just don't want to or don't handle playing bad well at all.


Ironically enough, some people casual or otherwise really do think they're above criticism/mistakes, and that's why any discussion that dispells this delusion is met with such harsh pushback.

People are against it because it is for that individual group to decide whether they want to continue on with that weak link, and as is the case with all things you really ought to delve into encounters. You're juggling both the difficulty of an encounter and the requirement of pushing a sufficient amount of DPS. They are only going to get better by doing such. In the particular case of this Miqo'te it is for the team they cleared with to judge them and pass criticisms. If their feedback is being shutdown cuz parse then that's incredibly conceited, especially if they're only trying to offer valid feedback or criticism, and especially in the event that the other group hasn't even progressed that far. If someone sacrifices some DPS to ensure they're able to do all the mechanics adequately enough then that's a perfectly valid solution with merit. - It's just as bad when someone gets overly full of themselves and either greeds and causes a wipe, or outright fails a mechanic. People shouldn't be using a singular clear as the sole indicative measure of player skill or willingness to learn, but rather observe a trend wherein the player still fails to improve over the course of several kills.

It is precisely because of people like they were playing with as to why people are pushing against the idea of it - "Well ur feedback is invalid cuz you have a grey parse" - All feedback and opinions should be treated equally and objectively. Not by someone who is overly vein.

I think there's a prevalent problem in this community in that the way they present the criticism or pointing out of mistakes is.. Questionable, as exhibited by the sheer fact that people are under some false illusion that presenting a criticism will result in a ban. Something actually mentioned barely a couple pages ago on this very thread.

Oh and before someone gleefully comes out with the "Do u even raid bro" - I'm just going to counter that beforehand by saying irrelevant when many of these mentalities permeate into the more casual content, in addition to the simple fact that many of these mentalities are not just exclusive to FFXIV but apply to practically any multiplayer game. So don't bother coming with that.