Summoner feels really, really dumbed down now

[dinnertime]

…As someone who mained Summoner across several expansions, I actually prefer the newer job design, particularly because of it having more action variety in my rotation, it being dramatically less clunky, and the much better aesthetics. Much of older Summoner involved Ruin III spam without any variety between the spell casts, and I only cast it maybe once a minute now. I also cannot emphasize enough how annoying the pet action spam was at times before this expansion, like part of the rotation was outside my control.

It's funny you mention Ruin spam when now we do yellow Ruin, Green Ruin, Red Ruin, Orange Ruin and Blue Ruin instead. It's not varied whatsoever.

[Rika007]

It's funny you mention Ruin spam when now we do yellow Ruin, Green Ruin, Red Ruin, Orange Ruin and Blue Ruin instead. It's not varied whatsoever.

Eh how something feels is in the eye of the beholder. To me the variations in how said ruin spam works feels enough different to me to make it not feel like old school ruin spam. It does feel varied even if it is just simply spamming the same button over and over again. That's an eye of the beholder thing though so if it takes with you is completely dependent on your experience.

[rewd]

Eh how something feels is in the eye of the beholder. To me the variations in how said ruin spam works feels enough different to me to make it not feel like old school ruin spam. It does feel varied even if it is just simply spamming the same button over and over again. That's an eye of the beholder thing though so if it takes with you is completely dependent on your experience.

Which is why we have been saying that if you value animations and particle effects over gameplay, the SMN rework is very likely to be appealing to you. People that care about how a job plays mechanically are not going to be fooled by a bunch of different colours.

[Rika007]

Which is why we have been saying that if you value animations and particle effects over gameplay, the SMN rework is very likely to be appealing to you. People that care about how a job plays mechanically are not going to be fooled by a bunch of different colours.

Hi. I'm a savage raider and someone who exclusively plays it in a raid setting and has been playing the job and all of its iterations since 2.0. I'm not someone who is just taken in by flashy aesthetics only. A job that flows well mechanically is very important to me. And I still like this new Summoner. Do I have issues with it? Yes. Do I wish it was a bit more complex? Yes.

Do I also think that it is a massive step up over the janky abomination that was Shadowbringers Summoner? Yes. Do I think it's a step up over the boring snore that was ARR Summoner? Yes. Heavensward is a push. Stormblood is the only iteration of the job that I will call just overall better in everyway of this new Endwalker summoner. Outside of that and the few complaints I have about the job I have very much enjoyed my time with it so far. I have loved progging the current savage tier on it.

The issue that y'all have is that you think only casuals like this new Summoner and people taken in by fancy lights. That is false and the copium you huff just to make yourself feel better. There are plenty of upper level players who do enjoy this version of Summoner.

[Madoka]

Which is why we have been saying that if you value animations and particle effects over gameplay, the SMN rework is very likely to be appealing to you. People that care about how a job plays mechanically are not going to be fooled by a bunch of different colours.

Yeah, that's basically always what I've been saying since launch. If you do not care about the particulars of playing a class and only how it looks and just play casually then you will definitely love it. if you spend 4-10 hours progging savage or ultimates a week and spend a significant amount of your game time in high end duties then you will get extremely bored of it because there's no optimizations to be pushed out.
Or you played a healer before.

[rewd]

Hi. I'm a savage raider and someone who exclusively plays it in a raid setting and has been playing the job and all of its iterations since 2.0. I'm not someone who is just taken in by flashy aesthetics only. A job that flows well mechanically is very important to me. And I still like this new Summoner. Do I have issues with it? Yes. Do I wish it was a bit more complex? Yes.

Do I also think that it is a massive step up over the janky abomination that was Shadowbringers Summoner? Yes. Do I think it's a step up over the boring snore that was ARR Summoner? Yes. Heavensward is a push. Stormblood is the only iteration of the job that I will call just overall better in everyway of this new Endwalker summoner. Outside of that and the few complaints I have about the job I have very much enjoyed my time with it so far. I have loved progging the current savage tier on it.

The issue that y'all have is that you think only casuals like this new Summoner and people taken in by fancy lights. That is false and the copium you huff just to make yourself feel better. There are plenty of upper level players who do enjoy this version of Summoner.

Nice to meet you, no one cares in this discussion.

The moment you mention "feel" and admit that you are indeed doing the same thing but that it only feels different, then you are agreeing and not confuting what was being said.

The problem "we all" have is with people like you that think they can come here, ignore all the countless posts that express in a concise, yet effective way what the problems of new SMN are and think they can get away with trying to make us look like we are just a bunch of "hurr durr dirty casuals" (even though, strangely enough, no one actually mentioned them).

Another big problem is that a lot of the criticism (if not most of it) about old SMN stems from ignorance or lies (the 2m "opener", "DoT mage" etc.). This entire discussion originated from "old SMN spammed Ruin III, new we have a lot of variety!".

I'm glad you raid, I wish you could work on your reading comprehension, though.

[MellowMink]

It's funny you mention Ruin spam when now we do yellow Ruin, Green Ruin, Red Ruin, Orange Ruin and Blue Ruin instead. It's not varied whatsoever.

The three sets of elemental spells have different cast times, reload times, and potencies than Ruin III and Tri-Disaster; you can argue whether the spells are similar, but to say they’re the same and thus have no variation is simply wrong. The Ruby spells also have different counts than the others.

The elemental variation especially becomes noticeable once Elemental Mastery is learned at level 86 when more order factors like a targeted Shadow Flare and a gap-closer are added, which as I said before is why I think that said trait should be swapped with an earlier one so that they don’t appear so late.

[MellowMink]

Nice to meet you, no one cares in this discussion.

…

I'm glad you raid, I wish you could work on your reading comprehension, though.

…These statements seem needlessly rude.

Many people who previously mained Summoner prefer the newer implementation, and that’s not an objectively bad thing when we’re talking about subjective preferences. Some people may instead prefer the older implementation, and that’s fine too; I myself personally don’t for previously stated problems like irritating pet action delay.

Now, I think the new implementation could definitely see some improvements; for instance, I mentioned that I think the level 86 Elemental Mastery trait should be unlocked much earlier so that more lower-level content allows for said trait’s really interesting order factors, but I don’t think the job right now is bad. I don’t think it’s perfect, but I like it more than before, and there’s no need to attack older players solely for having a preference.

[Rika007]

Nice to meet you, no one cares in this discussion.

The moment you mention "feel" and admit that you are indeed doing the same thing but that it only feels different, then you are agreeing and not confuting what was being said.

The problem "we all" have is with people like you that think they can come here, ignore all the countless posts that express in a concise, yet effective way what the problems of new SMN are and think they can get away with trying to make us look like we are just a bunch of "hurr durr dirty casuals" (even though, strangely enough, no one actually mentioned them).

Another big problem is that a lot of the criticism (if not most of it) about old SMN stems from ignorance or lies (the 2m "opener", "DoT mage" etc.). This entire discussion originated from "old SMN spammed Ruin III, new we have a lot of variety!".

I'm glad you raid, I wish you could work on your reading comprehension, though.

Ill work on my reading comprehension when you work on your own and also learn how to not make blatant blanket statements and try to paint everyone with the same wide brush. Since the moment you started posting on here about Summoner discussion every word you say speaking to other people drips with contempt and tries to paint them as the attacking party even though you are the one that uses vocabulary right off the bat meant to insult and demean. Stop acting like you actually want actual discussion, just throw out your words you want in an echochamber and let it be. Your the one who painted those who like the current Summoner with the Casual brush, even if you didn't use the word casual, and trying to deny that you are just makes you look more ridiculous.

You act under the idea that this is all a black or white issue and that there cant be someone who likes the aesthetics and feel of a job and be happy with the state it currently is in, find it mechanically fun and enjoyable, from both a high tier and casual level play, but also have issues at the same time they would like to be addressed. It wouldn't fit your narrative, it would be too nuanced. I would give you credit and say maybe you don't mean to come off like that, but I'm pretty sure your intelligent enough to recognize you sound dismissive, so I won't insult you by saying your not doing it on purpose. Nice try though to attempt to turn it around.

[rewd]

…These statements seem needlessly rude.

Ignoring comments and trying to make this a "elitists vs casuals" situation is not only ruder, but also devious, which is far worse.