Summoner feels really, really dumbed down now

[Exodus-E]

Given the fact that they already threw the "we can only be attuned to the aether of 3 primals" or whatever the old lore was out the window

No they didn't.

Trances are merely an alternate means of summoning (one that's more "cost-effective", aether-wise).
That whole "only being able to attune to 3 Primals' essences" (due to our own limitations) only applied to Egis, and even then we can at least change their outward appearance.

That said, they WILL have to introduce a new story justification for us being able to create Egis/"gemstone summons" that use elements beyond the ones we already use (i.e. Fire, Earth and Wind).

[dinnertime]

I’m sorry, but this literally isn’t true.

-1.5 second cast time with weaving potential vs 2.8 cast time with no weaving potential

Weave? Weave what? The only thing we could weave is Aetherflow and it's smarter to use it during Demi phases when there's definite raid buff windows. That point is quite irrelevant.

Besides you only get to use Ruin III once per minute as a filler spell, same with Ifrit's phase because it does the least damage out of the three summons.

Are they the same? No. Similar? Yes. Do they fulfill the same purpose? Yes. So basically no true variety between them.

I will add that the older Summoner also had a few pet attacks, but those had annoying clunkiness and were often delayed, so I’m personally glad that those were replaced.

And the clunkiness still exists in Radiant Aegis and Searing Light, so not entirely gone.

[Aikaal]

-1.5 second cast time with weaving potential vs 2.8 cast time with no weaving potential

Weave? Weave what? The only thing we could weave is Aetherflow and it's smarter to use it during Demi phases when there's definite raid buff windows. That point is quite irrelevant.

Besides you only get to use Ruin III once per minute as a filler spell, same with Ifrit's phase because it does the least damage out of the three summons.

Are they the same? No. Similar? Yes. Do they fulfill the same purpose? Yes. So basically no true variety between them.



And the clunkiness still exists in Radiant Aegis and Searing Light, so not entirely gone.

3 Ruin III per 2 minutes if done optimally!

But yeah, why would you favor any Ruin III spell over available Rite spells. You can't compare. I'm not up to date on the argument but I would say Ruin III definitely can,t be compared to Rite. Ruin III is your terrible filler spell you never want to cast. It's the spell you drop if you had to swift a raise. I will term in term for functionality and simplicity, they are similar. You don't feel really good just using your Rite spells until you're out of charges. If Rite was a combo of Ruin III? That'd certainly would make you cast more spells and that'd make you have a more engaging rotation.

I still feel it's incredibly silly that I must use Bahamut to gain access to I/G/T, this restricts so much potential. Searing Light, Randiant Aegis, Rekindle also should not be restricted to time frames.

[MellowMink]

Ifrit Ruin is just Ruin III.

Are they the same? No. Similar? Yes.

These are two contradicting statements; I replied to the first.

[Atamis]

These are two contradicting statements; I replied to the first.

to be fair hes not really wrong. Ifrits ability set is completely out of place as Ifrit doesn't cast anything except eruption and it isn't even themed correctly just being ruin but red. Arguing otherwise is just being pedantic.
2.8 cast time 2.5 recast 430 potency
1.5 cast time 2.5 recast 310 potency
Deals [damage] with a potency of [X]

one of these is ruin 3 one is ruby rite. No meaningful difference between them.

Ideally Ifrit would be rewarked to better match his trial abilities.

[RatCopter]

EW SMN is the only iteration I wanted to actually sit down and play in real content, and I unironically hope they do something similar to DRK.

My only complaints is
- casting on ifrit phase gives me whiplash after coming out of any other phase
- energy drain, aetherflow and fester feel like the relics of an age past that they are and could do with being expanded on in some way

Considering what Yoshi P said about HW DRK, you have my condolences if you're not happy with this SMN, because you probably won't get to go back.

[Dahlinea]

Considering what Yoshi P said about HW DRK, you have my condolences if you're not happy with this SMN, because you probably won't get to go back.

No need to go back. Everyone pretty much knows it will stay with this kit. The job is already reworked. Of course, I still prefer the old job but gotta deal with it.
What we want is the SMN to have real job mechanics that make the new skills meaningful. Right now you just shoot them for damage and you can even ditch the summons and their whole set of skills if Bahamut/Phoenix is up again, typically in boss transitions, since Bahamut/Phoenix are still the (now standalone) SMN bursts.
Also the Attunement skills doesn't give a good flow during the fights. Some tweaks are much needed.

[ty_taurus]

There's only so much that we can realistically expect of mid-expansion job changes, but with that in mind, here is my own personal take on what I'd do to improve SMN's experience over the course of EW besides just potency increases:

1. Adjust Garuda's phase so that Emerald Rite and Emerald Catastrophe have a 1.5 second cast time and up their power proportionally. This adds more casting back into SMN and also helps further identity the value of Titan's mobility, especially at lower levels.
2. Have Physick change into Shining Physick when changing from ACN to SMN: a GCD on a 90 second cooldown that restores 20% of the SMN's HP and MP that comes from your Carbuncle. Not a particularly exciting ability, but gives the Physick button a purpose, extra utility from Carbuncle which many of us want, and helps you get back on your feet after a raise. We could also just cut Physick, but I was trying to find excuses to give Carbuncle more. They won't do this, but I would.
3. Add a new ability at level 50 called Gemstone Light: an OGCD on a 60 second cooldown that comes from your Carbuncle and grants you a random gemstone and can only be used when you have none. Again, it gives a bit more to Carbuncle as our aid and gives SMN some much needed flexibility whenever you need to wait before your next Summon Bahamut/Phoenix, such as before a boss in a dungeon, when a phase change is about to come up, etc.
4. Have Energy Drain upgrade into Energy Siphon and just keep the damage of Energy Drain. SMN is in no concern of button bloat right now, but of all the "now you get an AoE version" buttons, this is one of the ones that feels really superfluous. This could also just be saved for 7.0 with the introduction of more new actions to warrant saving some hotbar space, but not everything needs a 1-to-1 AoE only button.
5. Restore ShB SMN's Fountain of Fire > Brand of Purgatory combo and spread that relationship to Astral Impulse > Astral Flare and Gemshine > Precious Brilliance. A 1-2 combo isn't really substantial depth, but it's something that could at least add a touch more substance to SMN's gameplay for the time being.

[Sequora]

No need to go back. Everyone pretty much knows it will stay with this kit. The job is already reworked. Of course, I still prefer the old job but gotta deal with it.
What we want is the SMN to have real job mechanics that make the new skills meaningful. Right now you just shoot them for damage and you can even ditch the summons and their whole set of skills if Bahamut/Phoenix is up again, typically in boss transitions, since Bahamut/Phoenix are still the (now standalone) SMN bursts.
Also the Attunement skills doesn't give a good flow during the fights. Some tweaks are much needed.

I think it was interesting that people bring up that some summon phases feel awkward in some fights. This is literally the one choice the new summoner gets to make. There are fights that I’ve learned that I have to change the order based on mechanics. If you need more movement save titan for that phase.

[Dahlinea]

I think it was interesting that people bring up that some summon phases feel awkward in some fights. This is literally the one choice the new summoner gets to make. There are fights that I’ve learned that I have to change the order based on mechanics. If you need more movement save titan for that phase.

Titan is actually the well-designed one of the 3. Garuda and Ifrit skills are the strange ones.
For me, it would make much more sense if Garuda hardcast ground DoT was OGCD and Emerald Rite were spells with fast casting times instead of instacasts. Ifrit's Ruby Rite having less cast time and Crimison Cyclone/Strike being two separate buttons sharing a 2 stack counter (so not a combo anymore and the possibility of repeating them), giving more flexibility.

But that's just my impressions from my play time with SMN till now.