Summoner feels really, really dumbed down now

[mathias-merodach]

I am just trying to understand your purpose. Why you haunt nearly every summoner thread rehashing the same arguments again and again before retreating back into attacks, derision, and dismissal as more people confront your arguments. And You have presented no proof of that. You have just made statements. As I told you before, you could find 1,000 people saying that they thoroughly love and approve of something. However, 1,000 of 100,000 is only 1%. Just as you cannot verify that a revert would go down as negatively as you state. One difference between you and I is that I have never made the claim to know the majority of the minds minds of FF14's player base. I have only stated that there are those who I agree and share feelings with. And that's not something I am comfortable saying as I feel it's more of a morality call than an argument but given your repeated claims to know how most players feel I do think it finally needs to be addressed.

And, again, you make another claim about the minds of those that are taking part in this thread. You do not know every class they play and how they spend their time so how can you, in good conscious, say they have no other class to fall back on? Perhaps I missed it, but I have not seen anyone state that they only play summoner and, if no summoner then sub cancelled. And I think it had a very good identity. Both sides are just opinions are just opinions. In addition, I do play other classes and I enjoy my time playing them. I advertise two of them openly. That does not mean that I, or anyone else for that matter, are now lesser to you because we express our discontent with the changes done. I can only wonder how you would feel, given your showing of Black Mage and how you tell people to pick up other classes while not knowing, or apparently caring, if they have or not, if it was changed to the point that you only had three spells and nothing else to manage, use or play with: a ST, an AoE, and then say Flare to proc on occasion for added damage, and lost everything from the Umbral Fire and Ice, Umbral Hearts, and Leylines to Freeze, Fire/Blizzard 4, Foul, Xenoglossy, Triple and Sharpcast,

[Leiron]

I mean...I get how people who liked the original version of SMN would be disappointed. On the other hand, i feel thematically, it feels more of a Summoner rather than a Warlock esque type magic class.
I do think perhaps they could put the DoTs back in, while simultaneously pulling back some of the potency on the summons.
in this way, there can be some weaving, while also using the summons as the backbone of their upfront damage.

[Dyvid]

Say "DoTs" to scare and upset the Summoner Historians™. It works like a charm!

Slipstream!!!!

[dinnertime]

I mean...I get how people who liked the original version of SMN would be disappointed. On the other hand, i feel thematically, it feels more of a Summoner rather than a Warlock esque type magic class.
I do think perhaps they could put the DoTs back in, while simultaneously pulling back some of the potency on the summons.
in this way, there can be some weaving, while also using the summons as the backbone of their upfront damage.

They don't even need to put DoTs back honestly. Just as long as there's more to weave with the amount of instants we have, the job would feel less boring to play.

[Aikaal]

Say "DoTs" to scare and upset the Summoner Historians™. It works like a charm!

Bahamut and Phoenix are just a glorified 15 second DoT with extra oGCD buttons.

[Dyvid]

Bahamut and Phoenix are just a glorified 15 second DoT with extra oGCD buttons.

[MellowMink]

…As someone who mained Summoner across several expansions, I actually prefer the newer job design, particularly because of it having more action variety in my rotation, it being dramatically less clunky, and the much better aesthetics. Much of older Summoner involved Ruin III spam without any variety between the spell casts, and I only cast it maybe once a minute now. I also cannot emphasize enough how annoying the pet action spam was at times before this expansion, like part of the rotation was outside my control.

The only notable thing I would like changed off the top of my head right now is for the trait Elemental Mastery to be unlocked way before level 86; the spells and abilities it introduces add much more complexity and order considerations that I feel should be there for more than just the latest content. Until you’re doing level 86 or higher content, Ruby attack spells feel the most inconvenient due to the really long cast times, but adding two more spell types including a gap-closer makes me less reluctant to like it. Titan also gets an oGCD attack spell, and Garuda gets Shadow Flare. These are all hugely significant things that make you have to think harder about which elemental primal to summon in what order, so I feel like that should be swapped with some other earlier-level trait.

[Kabooa]

Bahamut and Phoenix are just a glorified 15 second DoT with extra oGCD buttons.

Where's that alignment chart for DoTs when you need it...

[Rolder50]

…As someone who mained Summoner across several expansions, I actually prefer the newer job design, particularly because of it having more action variety in my rotation, it being dramatically less clunky, and the much better aesthetics. Much of older Summoner involved Ruin III spam without any variety between the spell casts, and I only cast it maybe once a minute now. I also cannot emphasize enough how annoying the pet action spam was at times before this expansion, like part of the rotation was outside my control.

The only notable thing I would like changed off the top of my head right now is for the trait Elemental Mastery to be unlocked way before level 86; the spells and abilities it introduces add much more complexity and order considerations that I feel should be there for more than just the latest content. Until you’re doing level 86 or higher content, Ruby attack spells feel the most inconvenient due to the really long cast times, but adding two more spell types including a gap-closer makes me less reluctant to like it. Titan also gets an oGCD attack spell, and Garuda gets Shadow Flare. These are all hugely significant things that make you have to think harder about which elemental primal to summon in what order, so I feel like that should be swapped with some other earlier-level trait.

And what variety is there in the new rotation, exactly? The large majority of your rotation is simply "An instant cast spell that does X damage" with precious little to actually weave between those instant casts. Also, there's a guy on youtube whose getting good results my macroing the entire rotation to a single button, which should serve to show just how simple it's become.

[golstat2003]

Summoner just needs a few tweak. I prefer the new design, as it feels more like the traditional FF SMN.