Summoner feels really, really dumbed down now

[dinnertime]

I mean...I get how people who liked the original version of SMN would be disappointed. On the other hand, i feel thematically, it feels more of a Summoner rather than a Warlock esque type magic class.
I do think perhaps they could put the DoTs back in, while simultaneously pulling back some of the potency on the summons.
in this way, there can be some weaving, while also using the summons as the backbone of their upfront damage.

They don't even need to put DoTs back honestly. Just as long as there's more to weave with the amount of instants we have, the job would feel less boring to play.

[golstat2003]

Summoner just needs a few tweak. I prefer the new design, as it feels more like the traditional FF SMN.

[MellowMink]

It's funny you mention Ruin spam when now we do yellow Ruin, Green Ruin, Red Ruin, Orange Ruin and Blue Ruin instead. It's not varied whatsoever.

The three sets of elemental spells have different cast times, reload times, and potencies than Ruin III and Tri-Disaster; you can argue whether the spells are similar, but to say they’re the same and thus have no variation is simply wrong. The Ruby spells also have different counts than the others.

The elemental variation especially becomes noticeable once Elemental Mastery is learned at level 86 when more order factors like a targeted Shadow Flare and a gap-closer are added, which as I said before is why I think that said trait should be swapped with an earlier one so that they don’t appear so late.

[dinnertime]

The three sets of elemental spells have different cast times, reload times, and potencies than Ruin III and Tri-Disaster; you can argue whether the spells are similar, but to say they’re the same and thus have no variation is simply wrong. The Ruby spells also have different counts than the others.

The elemental variation especially becomes noticeable once Elemental Mastery is learned at level 86 when more order factors like a targeted Shadow Flare and a gap-closer are added, which as I said before is why I think that said trait should be swapped with an earlier one so that they don’t appear so late.

Different cast times? Bahamut Ruin, Phoenix Ruin and Titan Ruin is just a recolored old Ruin II/Ruin IV. Ifrit Ruin is just Ruin III. The only unique one is Garuda's Ruin because we never had a 1.5 recast skill.
Potencies don't mean much when they essentially fulfill the same purpose. It's your bread and butter spam spell. Bottom line is, they NEVER removed the Ruin spam people kept complaining about. How it's designed will make people think it adds variety but it really doesn't.

The favors are good though. Also people seem to forget that the old Egis gave variety to SMN but was held back in how they were designed, but the new favor mechanic essentially replaced that.

EDIT: Adding to this, Bahamut and Phoenix function essentially the same except for their Astral Flow. Back then Bahamut required you to go through Dreadwyrm Trance first and also save up Ruin IV stacks to use during his phase. Phoenix gave you a lot of mobility and you have a 1-2 combo.

[MellowMink]

Nice to meet you, no one cares in this discussion.

…

I'm glad you raid, I wish you could work on your reading comprehension, though.

…These statements seem needlessly rude.

Many people who previously mained Summoner prefer the newer implementation, and that’s not an objectively bad thing when we’re talking about subjective preferences. Some people may instead prefer the older implementation, and that’s fine too; I myself personally don’t for previously stated problems like irritating pet action delay.

Now, I think the new implementation could definitely see some improvements; for instance, I mentioned that I think the level 86 Elemental Mastery trait should be unlocked much earlier so that more lower-level content allows for said trait’s really interesting order factors, but I don’t think the job right now is bad. I don’t think it’s perfect, but I like it more than before, and there’s no need to attack older players solely for having a preference.

[rewd]

…These statements seem needlessly rude.

Ignoring comments and trying to make this a "elitists vs casuals" situation is not only ruder, but also devious, which is far worse.

[Kabooa]

Close enough!

[Dyvid]

So here is basically what this redesign actually did.
- It removed Bio and Miasama along with Bane
- It removed Egi pets
- It removed FWT single target & AoE combo
- It moved Egi Assaults from the pet to the Summoner
- It moved Egi Enkindle from the pet to the Summoner
- It added a nice looking Primal for about 3 seconds
- It added Demi 1.5s Auto Attack
- It didn't add any new primal summons to the job

This redesign only served to fix common complaints from 5.0 yet it ignored what was actually good in 2.0, 3.0, 4.0 and 5.0. That is the crux of the problem.

Let's take the first issue, the removal of Aetherflow from the job (Sorry but Energy Drain isn't Aetherflow). In 3.0 and 4.0, Aetherflow served as the setup for your rotation. It allowed for AF abilities to charge your Trance which in turn charged your Demi. Aetherflow should be used to add Elemental Arcanum. Using all three in turn would charge up your Trance/Demi.

Let's talk about Egi pet removal. Was it really needed? Wouldn't people have been happier to summon Garuda Prime, have her stay and auto-attack in a manner similar to that of a Demi? You'll still be summoning one after another but they'll do a little extra damage while you go through your Elemental Ruins (Egi Assaults).

While on the subject of Egi Assault or more to the point, Pet Action Removal. In 2.0, 3.0, and 4.0; pets had 4 different abilities then 5.0 reduced that to just two. In 6.0 it's still just 2 which make it feel super light in terms or abilities and unique playstyle.
FFFXIV Battle Design has 3 basic sources of damage; Global Cooldown (GCD), off Global Cooldown (oGCD), and Damage over Time (DoT). Summoner offers two out of the three yet gives you three different Elemental Arcanum.... A better design would be one element to focus on GCD, one to take a oGCD weave design, and one use a DoT design. Now I mentioned earlier how pet actions went from 4 to 2 but I feel 3 would be a good fit in 6.0.

Trance/Demi also feels off now. In 4.0 Bahamut would attack when you used a GCD or a oGCD action. In 5.0 FWT was a 1 & 2 combo. Now both have been dumbed down to 1 Single and 1 AoE. Everlasting Flight/Rekindle are nice but require a rotation rather than on demand use. Making Demi auto attack did fix the problem of Demi's "ghosting" Enkindle but both need a unique playstyle. I've long said during the 5.XX cycle if Demi just Auto Attack, there should be a trait were any GCD or oGCD has a chance to change Bahamut next auto attack into something stronger. Also change Akh Morn to GigaFlare since it is his signature move and the fact that Deathflare is Akh Morn. Also DWT should go back to GCD spells.

Ruin and Tri-D are basically useless since you'll only be casting Arcanum Ruins. A better option might be oGCD. We could remove Fester and ED/ES then just have Ruin IV, Tri-D, and Painflare as oGCD with some kind of charge mechanic.

Speaking of mechanics, SMN needs some to make up for all that they lost. As I said eariler, AetherFlow > Arcanum (AC) > AC > AC > Trance/Demi is feel good but needs more. Plus we are still missing the summons we were promised for over 7 years now.
We need an Astral Cycle and Umbral Cycle. During the Astral Cycle Aetherflow you'll have access to Ifrit, Shiva, Garuda (Fire melts ice, ice block wind, wind blows out fire). When you cast the elements in the right order you'll do bonus damage. The Umbral Cycle will be Leviathan, Ramuh, Titan (Lightning strikes water, Water erode earth, Earth ground lightning). An other key fact is that you'll get access to use either Astral AF or Umbral AF (2 different Abilities) to build up 2 different Trance (2 different Abilities). This should help with death issues and complete lose of a rotation plus give the Summoner more flexibility on when to use said trance.

Another new addition would be complete both DWT and to unlock a new Summon that would be your quick 3 second Primal Enkindle Animation would be either Odin or Alexander that does are straight line attack, since that is SE flavor of the week for this Expansion.

As for Searing Light and Aegis, I'm not sure why SE can't just make it a Carbuncle Spell Animation but that is what it should be so you can cast it at anytime.

So to summarize the rotation would be:
(Astral AF > Fire, Ice, Wind > DWT/Bahamut) + (Umbral AF > Water, Thunder, Earth > FWT/Phoenix) = Straight Line Primal Enkindle (Odin or Alexander).
One GCD Arcanum (Fire & Water), one oGCD Arcanum (Earth & Ice), and one DoT Arcanum (Thunder & Wind).
Three charge oGCD (Ruin, Tri-D, and Painflare).
Searing Light and Aegis independent of pets.

[rewd]

snip

To summarize, SMN's rework needs a rework.

[dinnertime]

snip

I actually like the sound of this. This looks like a combination of 4.x and 6.0 SMN which is really what I wanted.

I really never understood why they scrapped how old Aetherflow worked. It made a lot more sense for Demi summons to require some sort of buildup to be accessible and it gave summoner so much flexibility. Tying it with the RGY summons is the way to go.