I love SMN

[Megguido]

The primal phases are a good idea but the execution doesn't feel that good imo. Ifrit has long cast times but also instant mobility spells. Garuda is the "hypercharge" 1.5s GCD spam phase, but also has a long af cast. Overall Ifrit is the most restrictive phase (longs casts + melee) and the lowest DPS out of the three, whereas Titan is the most free movement phase and the highest DPS.

Feels like each summon doesn't have its identity. Also the GCD constantly changing feels really weird, with 2.5s base, then 1.5s instant casts during Garuda -oops- now it's 3.5s, then 2.8s for two Ifrit cast, then back to 2.5s.

Also they made a nice QoL on the base Ruin spell, reducing its cast time to 1.5s but it's now useless cause we cast it only once per minute.

[Atomos]

The primal phases are a good idea but the execution doesn't feel that good imo. Ifrit has long cast times but also instant mobility spells. Garuda is the "hypercharge" 1.5s GCD spam phase, but also has a long af cast. Overall Ifrit is the most restrictive phase (longs casts + melee) and the lowest DPS out of the three, whereas Titan is the most free movement phase and the highest DPS.

Feels like each summon doesn't have its identity. Also the GCD constantly changing feels really weird, with 2.5s base, then 1.5s instant casts during Garuda -oops- now it's 3.5s, then 2.8s for two Ifrit cast, then back to 2.5s.

Also they made a nice QoL on the base Ruin spell, reducing its cast time to 1.5s but it's now useless cause we cast it only once per minute.

Everything you said is why I love the new smn, it's definitely not boring because you have to think on the fly. If they change everything you mentioned to something that is the same across the board then what fun will that be?

[Megguido]

Everything you said is why I love the new smn, it's definitely not boring because you have to think on the fly. If they change everything you mentioned to something that is the same across the board then what fun will that be?

Oh I love the fact we have to cycle through summons, and each summon has its own thing. We must learn when to stand still for Ifrit and keeping Titan for movement etc... But I would have preferred something like Ifrit > full melee phase, Garuda > mobility phase, Titan > casting phase, or something like that.

Both old and new SMN had to "think on the fly" imo, but now the summon order is the only depth SMN has, or that's the feeling I have. There's no flexibility or decision making beyond "which eon do I summon first ?", I can't delay my Titan phase a couple of seconds to keep it for something that requires movement for example. I have to use all three summon back to back with only 2 GCD of flexibility (1 Ruin 4 + 1 Ruin 3) or I either delay Bahamut/Phoenix or lose some primal stacks. I guess I played the old SMN way too much

[IchiExorz]

I'm in the process of lvling SMN right now so it's not like i have any engame experience with it. But i'm lvl 86 and got to play around with the new skills and nothing else that changes up the rotation wmuch will come after this point so i'll just give me opinion on how it feels to play.

After hearing people say they don't like how easy it is now i kinda started to think that easy means not fun. But to my surprise i'm quite enjoying it for now. I quite like the change of pace during the primal summoning phases. Ifrit being slow but higher single hit damage, Titan being mobile and has ogcd spam inbetween attacks making it feel fast paced & Garuda just having a low gcd making for a different pace too. I find it quite fun having these different feeling phases.

There are 2 complaints I have though. 1 is that Aetherflow doesn't really interact with anything. I woulda liked to see it have an impact on the summoning class identity. Now it just feels like 3 extra ogcds you get once a minute oh and a free Ruin4 i guess.

The other is that the carbuncle feels a bit pointless. Radiant Aegis while useful i feel like it doesn't quite fit the job nor does it interact with anything the job does. And to make matters worse we get an extra charge of it at 88. I'd have rather had it be an offensive ogcd ability or something like a buff to the summoner.
With the carbuncle literally not being available for like +50% of our rotation, having a defensive ability that we can't use for over half of the time feels weird.

[DMarquiz]

I do too love the new SMN.

But hey, I think it's the job's fate to have the playerbase divided on it, no matter how it is designed.

My only gripe right now with the job is the base carbuncle that does nothing. I wish it was a cosmetic spell so it would be optional, I feel their animation of popping in and out after every other egi/demi is a bit distracting, let alone the fact that the party buff and your personal shield are attached to its presence... I miss a LOT of opportunities to use that shield because something happens I'm either in demi phase or right on that moment where the egi comes to perform their move.

Thank you!! I have been trying to figure out how that carbuncle attacks! I actually stopped playing it last night, only lvl 20, but it's meh. BUT, I tried it very, very briefly before the change with the dots and 'attack everything surrounding one target' carbuncle attack. And didn't even make it to lvl 20. I was planning on quitting the job all together. The only thing I would say is by the time my little red/yellow hit the target, I could finish it off with one quick ruin, but I wait for it to hit so not to waste it and have fun with it.

[OtakuSempai]

You guys must love Ruin IV spam. But hey, at least its pretty to look at and fits your arbitrary definition of what a summoner is right? Gameplay be damned.

[Burningskull]

So it'd act like Blue Mage's Surpanakha? Something definitely needs to happen with Garuda's gemshine spam as it shreds your MP for very little pay off with how weak it is.

Kinda... I guess. I was thinking you would use the Gemshine 4 times and then Astral Flow would be empowered. It would also be nice if it wasn't a ground AoE that enemies can move out of since a lot of enemies at once means they tend to push each other out of the way to get to the tank.

I was mainly trying to come up with interesting ways for Astral Flow and Gemshine to work together like in the Titan phase as I think that's the most fun part to me and I love combos between abilities. I was also trying to remove the long cast times on Ifrit. Kinda like another reward for hitting lvl 86. The long cast times when everything else is instant cast except Ruin 3 just kind of feels off to me. It doesn't even really seem to hit any harder to me. Maybe a few thousand. Now if it did say 20k verses the other phases only don't 10k or something "maybe" that would be different but I just really hate slow cast times. It's once reason BLM tends to be the last DPS I level.

[Corbeau]

Aetherflow is a bankable resource that you can spend under raid buffs (including searing light) for extra value compared to blowing it on cooldown. That's all it is. Which is honestly fine, it's just very basic.

[Mezzoforte]

On that first bit I think you're slightly misunderstanding what I meant. I am aware you can use them in any order you want, what I mean is using the SAME primal 2-3 times consecutively instead of having to use all 3. Also I've played summoner pretty much exclusively since this rework went live. Just because I'm not level 90 doesn't mean I haven't played it. It just means I don't have endwalker atm.

I am aware that at level 86 I would get garuda's astral flow ability which I would obviously use after summoning her.

I never said I didn't summon garuda (obviously you're going to pop all 3 primals), or that I didn't ever use her attunements, just that doing so felt extremely situational and at times there was no reason to do so. I was specifically referring to garuda's gemshine and brilliance abilities, which have significantly lower potencies than ruin and tri-disaster even at their maximum listed upgrades, meaning you would only cast them when you need to move and aren't already on gcd. I also wasn't passing judgement, I absolutely love the rework, I was just commenting on something that felt a bit strange to me that is still in effect at max level unless there is some hidden passive that isnt listed in abilities or traits that buffs garuda.

For context, the maximum potency of ruin 3 is 310, while emerald rite is 230. This is what I was talking about. The reason that feels weird to me is because topaz rite, which is also instant cast like emerald rite, is also a straight upgrade over ruin 3. That is what I meant when I said, use garuda for the big cooldowns and sit in titan for mobility, because it only takes 2 globals to spent garudas arcanum and astral flow and titan's four attunement charges will probably last you through any mobility you need, but if you need 8 instant cast spells you'd obviously want to use all of garudas attunements too, but you don't have to consume them just because you summoned her.

Edit: It has however, since I made the original post been pointed out to me that while ER has a noticeably lower potency it also has a lower GCD, but that is bit that I hadn't noticed has nothing to do with my character level and more to do with not being prompted to look at the gcd :P That knowledge does not make it feel less weird though, at least by much. It's not really something I felt enough to notice whenever I'd cast the spell.

You really need to read your abilities more. Garuda gem abilities do more damage. Look at the recast timer. Its 1.5s not 2.5s. So they show a lower potency but actually does more damage. There is never a time youd avoid using any of your summon powers except the rare case a boss is running circles around nonstop then you may use your Ruin4 in place of garudas flow. This should sort of illuminate you on the fact you dont particularly know what you are talking about.

[Adonan]

You really need to read your abilities more. Garuda gem abilities do more damage. Look at the recast timer. Its 1.5s not 2.5s. So they show a lower potency but actually does more damage. There is never a time youd avoid using any of your summon powers except the rare case a boss is running circles around nonstop then you may use your Ruin4 in place of garudas flow. This should sort of illuminate you on the fact you dont particularly know what you are talking about.

There's probably more going on behind the scenes when it comes to potency-maths that I'm not even gonna pretend to understand-but I think Garuda's gem would deal less damage than Titan's, but more than Ifrits. Ruby Rite has a potency of 430, but only two charges. If we, in all likelihood, grossly oversimplify the maths and take the tooltip at face value, two attacks with a potency of 430 would be 860 in total. Topaz Rite is four charges with a potency of 330, so 1,320. Emerald Rite is also four charges, but with a potency of 230 for a total of 920. Obviously, none of that takes into account the Astral flow ability (among other factors), though we could if necessary.

Garuda has a short GCD, but she no more charges than Titan. More importantly, you can only summon her once after every Demi phase just like the other two. As such, in ~60 seconds she would have dealt 920 potency's worth of damage, Titan would have dealt 1,320, and Ifrit 860. Next phase she would be able to double up on that, but so would the other two.

If Emerald Rite was just an unrestricted regular ability with a GCD of 1.5, then she would most certainly outperform Titan, at least in longer engagements.