Dark Knight Megathread

[NightHour]

I wouldn't mind a slight MP nerf for TBN, say like 2000-2500.

No other tanks mitigation is tied to their DPS.

TBN needs it's MP cost removed completely in exchange for either a slight shield reduction or slight cooldown increase.



Remove MP cost and decrease shield to 15/20%

or

Remove MP cost and increase cooldown to 25 seconds

[ItMe]

No other tanks mitigation is tied to their DPS.

TBN needs it's MP cost removed completely

Is that necessarily a bad thing though?
Do all of the tanks need to keep mitigation and DPS separate?
I kinda like that DRK mixes the two a bit. It helps it feel unique and it's fun to be rewarded for mitigating properly.

[Sazuzaki]

No other tanks mitigation is tied to their DPS.

TBN needs it's MP cost removed completely in exchange for either a slight shield reduction or slight cooldown increase.



Remove MP cost and decrease shield to 15/20%

or

Remove MP cost and increase cooldown to 25 seconds

TBN simply requires knowledge of the boss. I get that some dungeon bosses do such abysmal dmg that they don't break TBN, but doesn't that say something about current dungeon design instead?

It doesn't, you just need more ways to interact with TBN so it does break OR you need to pay attention more on when to use it properly.

[Sazuzaki]

Is that necessarily a bad thing though?
Do all of the tanks need to keep mitigation and DPS separate?
I kinda like that DRK mixes the two a bit. It helps it feel unique and it's fun to be rewarded for mitigating properly.

Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking. All tanks don't need to feel the same and have the same cooldowns. DRK is special for this reason, and it fits the class thematically.

[Kalaam]

Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking. All tanks don't need to feel the same and have the same cooldowns. DRK is special for this reason, and it fits the class thematically.

If they all had their differences it'd be fine. If it's only the DRK it is just a disadvantage. It does give a DPS gain to healers though, true.
But it doesn't even fit thematically, TBN costing DarkSide would fit thematically since it's litteraly what it is. using your Darkside to protect you "in the blackest nights".
If TBN costed say, 20s of Darkside, and kept it's DA proc the same then it'd absolutely be a gain when used well, and neutral when it doesn't pop.

Edit: While at it, it'd be fun to have Living Shadow sustain on Darkside as long as you have more than 10s of it, so you could maintain it by dumping more mana into it if you want more damage, or let it fade by itself to save ressources or end it early.

[Sazuzaki]

If they all had their differences it'd be fine. If it's only the DRK it is just a disadvantage. It does give a DPS gain to healers though, true.
But it doesn't even fit thematically, TBN costing DarkSide would fit thematically since it's litteraly what it is. using your Darkside to protect you "in the blackest nights".
If TBN costed say, 20s of Darkside, and kept it's DA proc the same then it'd absolutely be a gain when used well, and neutral when it doesn't pop.

As long as TBN costs something and requires some brain usage. But I think it fits thematically because you have to risk something to gain an advantage. Not gonna go in depth just cause I don't feel like talking about lore, but you'll probably get what I'm trying to say. But you can make TBN neutral if it doesn't break literally just by expanding upon what it does already, hence maybe make TBN have some other combo actions that can overwrite its effects if things don't go as planned, rather than flat out removing its depth altogether.

Edit: Sorry I'm pretty bad a trying to get my points across. What I'm actually trying to say is there's other ways to make TBN less frustrating to use by keeping it fun, rewarding, and having it appeal to everyone rather than turning it into a button that you just mindlessly use on cool down with little to no punishment that only appeals to newer players or people who don't focus too much on optimizing.

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

Is that necessarily a bad thing though?
Do all of the tanks need to keep mitigation and DPS separate?

Yes. This game's history of tanking has shown anytime you mix the two of them, it results in very anti-tank behavior, something Square very demonstrably detests.

Tanking stuff perpetually in offensive stance instead of tank stance, attacks like Inner Beast basically never being used due to being massive dps losses, PLDs standing in every ground aoe they know won't kill them to proc shield swipes (thus putting extra stress on healers), DA + DM, DA + DD basically never being used since thats mp you could use for DA + SE, etc. In particular, you'd see a lot of the shield swipe problem if TBN became unequivocally dps positive, or TBN being relegated to a dps only skill by free-firing it as much as possible to milk the mp/dps ratio gain over edge, rather than it being more tactically used for mitigation.

TBN could use some QOL, but overall its fine as it is. It lets you shuffle resources around by banking 3k MP for upcoming raid buffs, giving you a very small advantage for proper utilization, but by large, being dps neutral. It just needs more time to break, or alternatively, it just refunds you the DA proc regardless if it breaks or not. As long as it costs MP, TBN cannot cost any less or more than the cost of edge/flood to make sure it stays dps neutral.

[ItMe]

Yes. This game's history of tanking has shown anytime you mix the two of them, it results in very anti-tank behavior,

You have lovely examples of the two being mixed poorly, but that's not to say they can only be mixed poorly.

And I'm not sure how TBN encouraging us to use the shield to maximal effect is "very anti-tank behavior."

[WhyAmIHere]

You have lovely examples of the two being mixed poorly, but that's not to say they can only be mixed poorly.

And I'm not sure how TBN encouraging us to use the shield to maximal effect is "very anti-tank behavior."

...you cant think of an example? You can't fathom a DRK willingly standing in an AoE and getting a vuln or 5 just to be hit harder to guarantee a TBN breaking?

[ItMe]

...you cant think of an example? You can't fathom a DRK willingly standing in an AoE and getting a vuln or 5 just to be hit harder to guarantee a TBN breaking?

Why would anyone do that though?
TBN breaking is DPS neutral.
You're taking vuln stacks for no benefit to yourself, and it's potentially a DPS loss because your healers need to do more to patch you up.