Dark Knight Megathread

[Sazuzaki]

The point I try to make is, that other Tanks 25 sec CD is free. TBN is not and tied to our MP which is used as a DMG ressource. Our MP isn't anything more than a DMG ressource at this point. No other Tank has his defensive Kit tied to it's damage. DRK is the only tank that has this, but isn't getting any adavantage out of it, in best case you break even, due to the procc you can get. While the other Tanks also get a Bonus within the first 4 secs of their ability, TBN doesn't have this. As some kind of compensation we got Oblation which is fine.
Having your defensive tied to your damage ressource makes it that way that you only use TBN when it will 100% pop (not talking about emergencies, but even in those cases it will pop, since it's an emergency). That limits your way to utilize this ability, while the other tanks can use their Heart of Conundrum, Bloodwheeting, Holy Sheltron free, no downside whatsoever, well you need gauge on PLD, but that is purely defensive used, there is no damage abilities tied to your shield gauge.
And yes TBN is powerful, but these new abilities the other Tanks got are extremly strong as well! Take a look at the excog-like Heal on Heart of Conundrum, it's like 15% heal on a Tank + the 28% mitigation within the first 4 secs.
TBN needs a rework to keep up, and at least it needs to be freed from our damamge ressource.

Yeah I get that, but the point is that DRK is already way too easy and straight forward and TBN is kind of the only think adding any sort of depth to the job. I personally don't think TBN needs a rework, but rather Oblation. Ofc it doesn't need to be as powerful as the other CDs from the other tanks since DRK already has TBN, but it can still have the same concept as the new CDs. I wouldn't mind a slight MP nerf for TBN, say like 2000-2500. But making it completely free is a bit too far I feel. And MP being strictly a dmg resource is not a good thing. Just make EoS/FoS another 20-30 second cool down at that point.

If TBN was made free, the job would have a variety of skills, but absolutely no thought on when to use them. It just simply wouldn't feel rewarding. So rather than just straight up removing the depth from TBN, I'd rather them add more synergy or things that combo off of using TBN. Tbh, I kinda wish Oblation combo'd with TBN and functioned as something to lessen the punishment if TBN fails to break, but also adds a bonus if you use TBN correctly. You get what I mean? Or have Oblation break TBN and just give you a flat 15-30% dmg reduction instead.

TL;DR: TBN is fine, they just need to expand on idea so it doesn't fall behind the other tanks.

[NightHour]

I wouldn't mind a slight MP nerf for TBN, say like 2000-2500.

No other tanks mitigation is tied to their DPS.

TBN needs it's MP cost removed completely in exchange for either a slight shield reduction or slight cooldown increase.



Remove MP cost and decrease shield to 15/20%

or

Remove MP cost and increase cooldown to 25 seconds

[ItMe]

No other tanks mitigation is tied to their DPS.

TBN needs it's MP cost removed completely

Is that necessarily a bad thing though?
Do all of the tanks need to keep mitigation and DPS separate?
I kinda like that DRK mixes the two a bit. It helps it feel unique and it's fun to be rewarded for mitigating properly.

[Sazuzaki]

Is that necessarily a bad thing though?
Do all of the tanks need to keep mitigation and DPS separate?
I kinda like that DRK mixes the two a bit. It helps it feel unique and it's fun to be rewarded for mitigating properly.

Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking. All tanks don't need to feel the same and have the same cooldowns. DRK is special for this reason, and it fits the class thematically.

[Kalaam]

Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking. All tanks don't need to feel the same and have the same cooldowns. DRK is special for this reason, and it fits the class thematically.

If they all had their differences it'd be fine. If it's only the DRK it is just a disadvantage. It does give a DPS gain to healers though, true.
But it doesn't even fit thematically, TBN costing DarkSide would fit thematically since it's litteraly what it is. using your Darkside to protect you "in the blackest nights".
If TBN costed say, 20s of Darkside, and kept it's DA proc the same then it'd absolutely be a gain when used well, and neutral when it doesn't pop.

Edit: While at it, it'd be fun to have Living Shadow sustain on Darkside as long as you have more than 10s of it, so you could maintain it by dumping more mana into it if you want more damage, or let it fade by itself to save ressources or end it early.

[Sazuzaki]

If they all had their differences it'd be fine. If it's only the DRK it is just a disadvantage. It does give a DPS gain to healers though, true.
But it doesn't even fit thematically, TBN costing DarkSide would fit thematically since it's litteraly what it is. using your Darkside to protect you "in the blackest nights".
If TBN costed say, 20s of Darkside, and kept it's DA proc the same then it'd absolutely be a gain when used well, and neutral when it doesn't pop.

As long as TBN costs something and requires some brain usage. But I think it fits thematically because you have to risk something to gain an advantage. Not gonna go in depth just cause I don't feel like talking about lore, but you'll probably get what I'm trying to say. But you can make TBN neutral if it doesn't break literally just by expanding upon what it does already, hence maybe make TBN have some other combo actions that can overwrite its effects if things don't go as planned, rather than flat out removing its depth altogether.

Edit: Sorry I'm pretty bad a trying to get my points across. What I'm actually trying to say is there's other ways to make TBN less frustrating to use by keeping it fun, rewarding, and having it appeal to everyone rather than turning it into a button that you just mindlessly use on cool down with little to no punishment that only appeals to newer players or people who don't focus too much on optimizing.

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

Is that necessarily a bad thing though?
Do all of the tanks need to keep mitigation and DPS separate?

Yes. This game's history of tanking has shown anytime you mix the two of them, it results in very anti-tank behavior, something Square very demonstrably detests.

Tanking stuff perpetually in offensive stance instead of tank stance, attacks like Inner Beast basically never being used due to being massive dps losses, PLDs standing in every ground aoe they know won't kill them to proc shield swipes (thus putting extra stress on healers), DA + DM, DA + DD basically never being used since thats mp you could use for DA + SE, etc. In particular, you'd see a lot of the shield swipe problem if TBN became unequivocally dps positive, or TBN being relegated to a dps only skill by free-firing it as much as possible to milk the mp/dps ratio gain over edge, rather than it being more tactically used for mitigation.

TBN could use some QOL, but overall its fine as it is. It lets you shuffle resources around by banking 3k MP for upcoming raid buffs, giving you a very small advantage for proper utilization, but by large, being dps neutral. It just needs more time to break, or alternatively, it just refunds you the DA proc regardless if it breaks or not. As long as it costs MP, TBN cannot cost any less or more than the cost of edge/flood to make sure it stays dps neutral.

[ItMe]

Yes. This game's history of tanking has shown anytime you mix the two of them, it results in very anti-tank behavior,

You have lovely examples of the two being mixed poorly, but that's not to say they can only be mixed poorly.

And I'm not sure how TBN encouraging us to use the shield to maximal effect is "very anti-tank behavior."

[WhyAmIHere]

You have lovely examples of the two being mixed poorly, but that's not to say they can only be mixed poorly.

And I'm not sure how TBN encouraging us to use the shield to maximal effect is "very anti-tank behavior."

...you cant think of an example? You can't fathom a DRK willingly standing in an AoE and getting a vuln or 5 just to be hit harder to guarantee a TBN breaking?

[ItMe]

...you cant think of an example? You can't fathom a DRK willingly standing in an AoE and getting a vuln or 5 just to be hit harder to guarantee a TBN breaking?

Why would anyone do that though?
TBN breaking is DPS neutral.
You're taking vuln stacks for no benefit to yourself, and it's potentially a DPS loss because your healers need to do more to patch you up.