Dungeons we need to talk dungeons

[kiagenwa]

lol yesterday we wiped in Continuum 3 times because we had no idea to let some creature loose so the boss get distracted from his wipe skill

The tank, I think, initiated abandon. We rejected.
It was fun.

Kudos to the initiator for respecting our votes.

Onto the topic, I'd support the idea. Our daily chore is a 'roulette'.
You can have one or two challenging dungeons per expansion and the rest just go and kill.

In the end the odds would even out.
I play this game for fun, not to fight the urge to sleep during boring dungeon run then feel excited when I get to a cutscene.

Just me personally, I found for xp/hour the 50/60/70 roulette was the worst performer, as a result I rarely ran those dungeons. I would not be surprised if others think similarly and that the devs saw a need to make something that offers something other than xp but also a time sink a la Eureka or Bozja or even Blue Mage.

Maybe. But for people under 90 days exp buff we'll need all the EXP we can gather and get to 70/80 in ARR.

[SamsaraTrickstar]

Why are you bothered by what other people like to do?
I don't . It was an answer to an point made.


No dungeon will be interesting when you run it 50+ times, so no point in wasting dev time for that.

Le me fix it, no content outside of pvp be interesting when you run it 50 + times. So why make a game?

[SamsaraTrickstar]

One of the major reasons for the "gotta go fast" mentality is the reward structure. You don't get anything useful out of the dungeon, you only get something useful for finishing it. With a reward system like that of course people will want to spend as little time as possible in there because time is literally currency earned.

It's not that they just hate the content.tyats why they want out as fast. When in the past some tomes was from each boss people did not run the full raid.

[ReynTime]

Too few? Seems to me that place is chock full of adds.

Anywho to quote Lucky_Cj, "I love the idea of Aurum Vale 2." That's exactly what we need. Instances where you have to really be on your toes to get through it.

I'm not talking about bosses with super difficult mechanics. I'm talking about places were you need just good old fashioned dungeoneering skills. Things like being aware of aggro radii, needing to use crowd control and interrupting abilities, etc...



I agree. In fact, that's why I love PotD*. It's not linear. Every floor has a random layout and you have floor traps, patrolling mobs, and trapped chests. It's unpredictable, except for the bosses.

I kind of disagree about players not seeking the quickest, most efficient routes. Many individuals are like that; but, not all. Some of us like exploring and taking our time to enjoy the experience.



Things aren't quite that bad. But, I do agree there are some vocal players out there who are very self-entitled.

But, I feel it is up to us players, who do enjoy adventuring in a world where dungeons challenge us, to speak out and let Square Enix know what we want. If we just remain silent, dungeons will continue to be streamlined and simplified.

On a side note, I miss your contributions to the Show Off Your Lalafell thread, Reyn. You are a talented digital artist and I was impressed by your works.



Bologna. Dungeons are as big a part of the adventurer's experience as the story line, side quests, and the world in general.



That is true. But, the devs have ways to keep players on our toes. Just as with PotD, they could change the floor plans. They could change the mobs or even the boss mechanics with each new party.

We just have to let Square Enix know we want more interesting dungeons. They aren't mind readers.




*If Square Enix came up with an MMO which was nothing but one infinite Deep Dungeon like Palace of the Dead, I'd buy it in an instant.

Are you sure you're not mistaking me for someone else? I'm very confused.

[Vyrerus]

We need more pulls segmented like the first pulls after the first boss in Ala Mhigo. Two giant monsters that hit harder than the final boss of the dungeon, 7 standard garlean troops, 9 weak dogs, and 1 big mech.

You do that whole pull, and it's extra hectic, due to the way it's two standard packs, then the dogs come running at you, while the Garleans in the artillery launch AOE after AOE raining down on anyone in your party, forcing the healer to move during the healing.

It's one of the most challenging pulls in the game, even when you overgear it by a ways.

In early dungeons they were willing to give us mechanics from the environment of the dungeon, and that was always cool(except for the weight sludge in Totorak). It'd be nice if they took that idea, and the idea of cannons from Ala Mhigo and anything similar and mixed them together.

Imagine like, a room like in Aurum Vale where there's toxic pools that you don't want to stand in, but then there's cannons or voidsent or something lobbing bomb after bomb at you and your group, but on top of that there's several key monsters in the group that hit really hard or do really bad things like paralysis inflicting cleaves/group wide charm. The longer you take dealing with the first stuff, the worse off you are, as some hellhounds spawn out of the bombs and come running at you. They could add in monster healers too, like the Wamouras in Lost City or the Pirate Barbers in Pharos Sirius.

[Mansion]

At this point, it wouldn't hurt to at least shake up the formula of dungeons in FFXIV. 3 bosses separated by trash gets boring.
I always think leveling dungeon are the best because missing parts of your kit make things more complex in a sense. There used to be that one dungeon in expansions I have a love-hate relationship because of this (The Vault, Doma Castle, and to a lesser extent Holminster) it's just so much harder in comparison to max level dungeons that we are used to simply speedrun with no thoughts (I guess because max level makes us so powerful, and synch down is alway in our favour).
I'd keep the leveling dungeons mostly as they are, but max level dungeons could do with more depth in either mechanics or design. What about 5 bosses rush and no trash? Massive amounts of mobs that we should find a route through? Environment mechanics (more than "don't stand in that" like Aurum Vale).
And a real hard mode (without being a WoW Mythic+ copy) could be interesting. It shouldn't necesserally provide raid-level gear, but more tomes and a few cosmetic rewards would work just fine.

[kaynide]

Maybe. But for people under 90 days exp buff we'll need all the EXP we can gather and get to 70/80 in ARR.

You would almost be better served just running the highest dungeon possible at your levels, -or- spamming PvP than doing the 50/60/70 roulette. Especially with the potential for massive timesink when you get a genuinely bad player. The core dungeons are much more forgiving for lazy/lackluster play/new player lack of experience (As you experienced yourself in your post above). Not a knock at you, just straight talk about wise use of time to get max xp/hour.'

...

I also love it when dungeons have interesting mechanics beyond tanking packs. Doesn't have to be anything crazy, but having a fight that needs to maneuver while also handling mobs is great. Even if it's small stuff like that Tonberry chasing you down, or the Indiana Jones boulders in Bardam.

Shisui of hte Violet Tides was a good one for me, with the bomb-fish, ambush fish under sand or the arrow barrage as you approach the second boss. Nothing hard, but it felt good.

[Lenivy]

Why are you bothered by what other people like to do?



No dungeon will be interesting when you run it 50+ times, so no point in wasting dev time for that.

Same can be said about msq, beast tribes, fates, gsc and raids. What they call no arguments like yours agin? Strawman?

[Poporito_Popoto]

Same can be said about msq, beast tribes, fates, gsc and raids. What they call no arguments like yours agin? Strawman?

Are you asking for devs to spend time to redesign those as well?

[Steelbreaker25]

Same can be said about msq, beast tribes, fates, gsc and raids. What they call no arguments like yours agin? Strawman?

No it isn't. Growing tired of running the same content over and over is pretty normal for people. Adding 1-2 extra dungeons to the roulette won't make it any less frustrating to run after a few weeks. This is why a lot of people hop on hunt trains so they don't have to run roulettes.