Dungeons we need to talk dungeons

[SamsaraTrickstar]

Why are you bothered by what other people like to do?
I don't . It was an answer to an point made.


No dungeon will be interesting when you run it 50+ times, so no point in wasting dev time for that.

Le me fix it, no content outside of pvp be interesting when you run it 50 + times. So why make a game?

[SamsaraTrickstar]

One of the major reasons for the "gotta go fast" mentality is the reward structure. You don't get anything useful out of the dungeon, you only get something useful for finishing it. With a reward system like that of course people will want to spend as little time as possible in there because time is literally currency earned.

It's not that they just hate the content.tyats why they want out as fast. When in the past some tomes was from each boss people did not run the full raid.

[Vyrerus]

We need more pulls segmented like the first pulls after the first boss in Ala Mhigo. Two giant monsters that hit harder than the final boss of the dungeon, 7 standard garlean troops, 9 weak dogs, and 1 big mech.

You do that whole pull, and it's extra hectic, due to the way it's two standard packs, then the dogs come running at you, while the Garleans in the artillery launch AOE after AOE raining down on anyone in your party, forcing the healer to move during the healing.

It's one of the most challenging pulls in the game, even when you overgear it by a ways.

In early dungeons they were willing to give us mechanics from the environment of the dungeon, and that was always cool(except for the weight sludge in Totorak). It'd be nice if they took that idea, and the idea of cannons from Ala Mhigo and anything similar and mixed them together.

Imagine like, a room like in Aurum Vale where there's toxic pools that you don't want to stand in, but then there's cannons or voidsent or something lobbing bomb after bomb at you and your group, but on top of that there's several key monsters in the group that hit really hard or do really bad things like paralysis inflicting cleaves/group wide charm. The longer you take dealing with the first stuff, the worse off you are, as some hellhounds spawn out of the bombs and come running at you. They could add in monster healers too, like the Wamouras in Lost City or the Pirate Barbers in Pharos Sirius.

[Mansion]

At this point, it wouldn't hurt to at least shake up the formula of dungeons in FFXIV. 3 bosses separated by trash gets boring.
I always think leveling dungeon are the best because missing parts of your kit make things more complex in a sense. There used to be that one dungeon in expansions I have a love-hate relationship because of this (The Vault, Doma Castle, and to a lesser extent Holminster) it's just so much harder in comparison to max level dungeons that we are used to simply speedrun with no thoughts (I guess because max level makes us so powerful, and synch down is alway in our favour).
I'd keep the leveling dungeons mostly as they are, but max level dungeons could do with more depth in either mechanics or design. What about 5 bosses rush and no trash? Massive amounts of mobs that we should find a route through? Environment mechanics (more than "don't stand in that" like Aurum Vale).
And a real hard mode (without being a WoW Mythic+ copy) could be interesting. It shouldn't necesserally provide raid-level gear, but more tomes and a few cosmetic rewards would work just fine.

[ReynTime]

Ok in a more serious answer... that ship has sailed and sank already, from the pov of Yoshi-P I'm sure.

He was the same producer that oversaw the Bonus Chest system being implemented to reward full dungeon clear and completely optional boss fights. What did he do after ARR was done? Scrap that system entirely.
He (or them, it's not like he alone decides those things) clearly quit the idea of more fully fledged dungeon experiences over 8 years ago, else they'd have brought back that system with some tweaks (like getting rid of the speedrun chest).

They also think it's better to focus efforts on the guided school trips they call Alliance Raids/"Large Scale instances" for sake of carries than implement harder (NOT SAYING SAVAGE OR MYTHIC+ HERE DON'T GET FREAKING STARTED) 8-man lv capped optional dungeons that would be vastly less frustrating for people who actually just want to manage their own FC mates and friends instead of lazy randoms.

They will not be convinced. I'm sorry to say.


That said, I think just saying "we need more trash/stronger adds" isn't even half of it. The problem isn't necessarily hallway design. It's that since Heavensward the only difference between a dungeon and another are set-pieces and aesthetic. They're all the exact same experience sans bosses. Every time it looks like there will be some unique gimmick it's just narrative flair and nothing else. "Get me these 3 materials... Oh but you don't get to choose the order". "Activate these teleporters... By which I mean just move forward anyway since they will activate themselves once you kill trash or the switch will be right next to them". "Use these cannons to blast open the- Ah whatever just kill the adds, an NPC will use the cannons for you"

[SamsaraTrickstar]

well i think that at this point if they are not willing to do it as some say. why even do dungeons. jus stop and give free daily tomes, don't waste people time.

[ReynTime]

well i think that at this point if they are not willing to do it as some say. why even do dungeons. jus stop and give free daily tomes, don't waste people time.

I wouldn't be shocked if they decided to only add like 3 Lv90 dungeons in EW til 7.0 and the average player shrug because "only raids and trials matter". I'm past the point of hoping for less shallow experiences in MMORPGs. It really has turned into Michael Bay Transformers equivalent of RPG subgenre.

[SamsaraTrickstar]

I wouldn't be shocked if they decided to only add like 3 Lv90 dungeons in EW til 7.0 and the average player shrug because "only raids and trials matter". I'm past the point of hoping for less shallow experiences in MMORPGs. It really has turned into Michael Bay Transformers equivalent of RPG subgenre.

from what i hear and i can be wrong that's what they plans to do. sadly you are correct, mmo's fails to be any thing but looks this days. that's why non of the can last long. look at somthing like new world. sell it self as an open worlds pvp/pve but make it safe an dlets you not ever take part in the open world pvp.
but i think we as players MUST talk of it more and stop except this as given to protect the noobs.

[ItMe]

from what i hear [...]

Really?
Where did you hear this?
To my knowledge the devs haven't commented on this.

[Steelbreaker25]

well i think that at this point if they are not willing to do it as some say. why even do dungeons. jus stop and give free daily tomes, don't waste people time.

Dungeons are primarily for advancing the MSQ.