Dungeons we need to talk dungeons

[Nishira]

I think that is the question pretty much. Is it causing more problems than it’s trying to solve? Or does it solve more problems than it creates? I have no idea myself, I have no intimate knowledge of how the game evolved over time and the probable reasons as to why.

Not trying to argue with you btw, I fully get your point

[Gameovers]

You can tell who's played since the beginning and who hasn't by what they ask for. I remember dungeons during HW - when I started playing. No this isn't my starter account. It's just my main account as my starter account was tied to a dead PSN I no longer use. - But the wipes and complaints were ALOT. People complained everything was too hard, people complained classes were overly busy to the point they needed spread sheets, heck, people complained solo instances were too hard. - The one in Stormblood being the biggest one.- So I can see why things got nerfed. Tho I think if they ever wanted to fix the problem then things need to actually hit harder. It'll fix healing, cause now things hit WAY harder. Slow down the ilvl progression so we don't over power things and dungeons, and add more one shot mechs. Doing these things I think will fix most of the issues. Cause just changing the way dungeons look won't do it for long term as players will just find the fastest way to do it and you WILL be shamed if you go against the grain.

If you don't beleive me... it already happens now. Try and go off the path in one of those old dungeons and watch what happens. If chat doesn't instantly go >:O D:??? Or :/ then those people weren't long time players and got lost.

[Xaruko_Nexume]

You can tell who's played since the beginning and who hasn't by what they ask for. I remember dungeons during HW - when I started playing. No this isn't my starter account. It's just my main account as my starter account was tied to a dead PSN I no longer use. - But the wipes and complaints were ALOT. People complained everything was too hard, people complained classes were overly busy to the point they needed spread sheets, heck, people complained solo instances were too hard. - The one in Stormblood being the biggest one.- So I can see why things got nerfed. Tho I think if they ever wanted to fix the problem then things need to actually hit harder. It'll fix healing, cause now things hit WAY harder. Slow down the ilvl progression so we don't over power things and dungeons, and add more one shot mechs. Doing these things I think will fix most of the issues. Cause just changing the way dungeons look won't do it for long term as players will just find the fastest way to do it and you WILL be shamed if you go against the grain.

If you don't beleive me... it already happens now. Try and go off the path in one of those old dungeons and watch what happens. If chat doesn't instantly go >:O D:??? Or :/ then those people weren't long time players and got lost.

I am probably in an extreme minority in saying the following, but that okay. I don't want the dungeons to be more complicated but I sincerely wish trash would hit much, much harder. I wish it was harder to do big pulls if not impossible. It would solve the problem healers seem to have of being bored in the role they chose to play of their own free will, and players, especially newer players could stop keeping sprint on cooldown and actually remember a little bit what the dungeon they just did actually looks like.

[Garnix]

Quoting for emphasis. Also a WoW refugee. The things people are asking for have ruined countless other MMO's not just WoW. Overly competitive content just breed toxicity. A side note Im actually concerned about Endwalker "bring more PvP content." The few front lines I have done are one of the only places where I have seen people call out others so negatively and be super toxic. Im really glad you at least can't see the names of enemy team mates.

I am probably in an extreme minority in saying the following, but that okay. I don't want the dungeons to be more complicated but I sincerely wish trash would hit much, much harder. I wish it was harder to do big pulls if not impossible. It would solve the problem healers seem to have of being bored in the role they chose to play of their own free will, and players, especially newer players could stop keeping sprint on cooldown and actually remember a little bit what the dungeon they just did actually looks like.

This is exactly why I think dungeons should be treated equally compared to raids and trials.
Have a story mode, and a hard mode. Especially now that there is only one dungeon per patch.
No need for a mythic+ highly competitive system.
Just make things hit a bit harder, remove some telegraphs, add a boss mechanic or two in each dungeon. Done.

[Xaruko_Nexume]

This is exactly why I think dungeons should be treated equally compared to raids and trials.
Have a story mode, and a hard mode. Especially now that there is only one dungeon per patch.
No need for a mythic+ highly competitive system.
Just make things hit a bit harder, remove some telegraphs, add a boss mechanic or two in each dungeon. Done.

I think thats a pretty fine plan. Just a hard mode for existing content. Imagine having to actually use sleep on a mob in a dungeon because if you pull one too many, you wipe. I don't even know what the sleep animation looks like and thats kinda sad.

[DPZ2]

This is exactly why I think dungeons should be treated equally compared to raids and trials.
Have a story mode, and a hard mode. Especially now that there is only one dungeon per patch.
No need for a mythic+ highly competitive system.
Just make things hit a bit harder, remove some telegraphs, add a boss mechanic or two in each dungeon. Done.

"Just make things hit a bit harder" ... this will be the regular rule of order when the Endwalker stat squish occurs. Done.

"Remove some telegraphs" ... too confusing to the player, who expect telegraphs in all content. Or are you saying that the ones you find in, say, fighting Storge in Shadowbringers should be hidden?

"Add a boss mechanic or two" ... the current difference between normal and hard modes in dungeon instances already do that. Note that some (Hard) instances are also story mode instances.

Of course, adding these additional "hard mode" dungeons comes with a cost. It is never as easy as "just add X". One of the disappointments I had with WoW was that all of the additional harder instances came at the cost of their patch cycle. I'd rather have new content come every three to four months than wait a year for the next content patch.

[Nyarlha]

Of course, adding these additional "hard mode" dungeons comes with a cost. It is never as easy as "just add X". One of the disappointments I had with WoW was that all of the additional harder instances came at the cost of their patch cycle. I'd rather have new content come every three to four months than wait a year for the next content patch.

I have to laugh at people thinking "it's fine, they can just add a hard modes for every dungeon" while the patch cycle schedule is already too tight as it is for the team.

[RitsukoSonoda]

"Just make things hit a bit harder" ... this will be the regular rule of order when the Endwalker stat squish occurs. Done.

"Remove some telegraphs" ... too confusing to the player, who expect telegraphs in all content. Or are you saying that the ones you find in, say, fighting Storge in Shadowbringers should be hidden?

"Add a boss mechanic or two" ... the current difference between normal and hard modes in dungeon instances already do that. Note that some (Hard) instances are also story mode instances.

Of course, adding these additional "hard mode" dungeons comes with a cost. It is never as easy as "just add X". One of the disappointments I had with WoW was that all of the additional harder instances came at the cost of their patch cycle. I'd rather have new content come every three to four months than wait a year for the next content patch.

Yeah again I'm interested in how much of an impact the upcoming stat squish will have... Another thought that just came to mind since it seems to effect ilvl climb starting at lv 50. What if this means people will have to actually do mechanics in the CT raids? Or not faceroll every boss/encounter in castrum and prae in a matter of seconds?

There were a few AoE's in the past that weren't telegraphed with a ground marker originally. One example was the front arc and 360 degree swing attacks by cyclops type enemies. However alot of players apparently couldn't see the slowly filling cast bar when it said something like 1000 tonze swing and think to move away from it.

[Velnora]

I could only wish dungeons were anything more than an uninspired, incredibly dull and boring activity. Though I know that will never happen. SE will play it safe and continue to churn out hallway simulators and tack on mediocre incentives to run them.

[Hazama999]

I've mentioned it before, but the one dungeon that always sticks in my mind is the 2.1 iteration of Pharos Sirius. It actually felt sorta challenging, especially on day one. I remember timing out on it a few times, and some people going "AW HELL NAW" whenever we got it on roulette... lol. I know, I know. People don't want to potentially have to go more than 30 minutes in a dungeon. It's just that after almost 8 years, I do tend to miss that sort of small rush an instance like that provided.

Dungeons nowadays really do just feel like a formality.