Pulling During Cutscene

[Kolaina]

It's not a risk. In terms of how "against the ToS" that is, it's basically like saying "sorry, got a phone call" after the tank and DPS die. If the intent of your brief non-participation isn't to grief your team then you're fine.

If helping the tank make the new player feel uncomfortable is what you signed up for, then do your thing. Don't perpetuate the self-serving lie that deciding to wait for the new player is against the ToS, though, because it's not.

So you will lie. Shows all I need to know about your character

[Goji1639]

So you will lie. Shows all I need to know about your character

Lie about what?

Goji, choosing to not participate is griefing the people who did. It's not the same as getting a phone call. You are CHOOSING to not participate to make yourself feel better.

Umm, me answering my phone is me choosing not to participate. It's fine, though, because the intention of my choice to not participate wasn't to grief my team.

It's the same with the cut scene; if your intention is only to wait until everyone is ready. Like, for instance, if you're in an EX raid and half a ready check doesn't pass, but a DPS runs in and pulls the boss anyways. No one's obligated to run in with him.

[MaxCarnage]

Lie about what?


Umm, me answering my phone is me choosing not to participate. It's fine, though, because the intention of my choice to not participate wasn't to grief my team.

It's the same with the cut scene; if your intention is only to wait until everyone is ready. Like, for instance, if you're in an EX raid and half a ready check doesn't pass, but a DPS runs in and pulls the boss anyways. No one's obligated to run in with him.

Goji, being afk 'cause you're answering the phone does not, in any way, equate to being at your computer, or holding your controller, and not pressing your buttons. Outside influences are excusable. Real life will always come before a game. But if you are not pressing your buttons because you want it to be "fair" for cutscene viewers, and you put yourself on this righteous pedestal, that is reportable. Ty.

So, if I get up and walk away from my keyboard to do something while waiting it won't be reportable then?

You're adding caveats to the rules that don't exist. Maybe I was at my keyboard but got momentarily distracted chatting with my FC; not bannable.

Whether or not it's breaking the ToS depends 100% on intent; not your proximity to a controller or keyboard, or whether your reasons for not participating exist inside or outside of the game.

What are you trying to prove here, Goji? Are we going to talk in circles all day? Sure, there are loopholes to be in the clear for sabotaging. And if you go to those lengths to get around getting in trouble for purposefully not participating, it really shows what kind of person you are. Not participating when someone pulls, not playing the job you queued up for, is griefing. It is reportable. It has gotten people banned. But sure, you're the good guy. Keep moral grandstanding. I really see what that person was calling you out for.

[Goji1639]

Goji, being afk 'cause you're answering the phone does not, in any way, equate to being at your computer, or holding your controller, and not pressing your buttons. Outside influences are excusable. Real life will always come before a game. But if you are not pressing your buttons because you want it to be "fair" for cutscene viewers, and you put yourself on this righteous pedestal, that is reportable. Ty.

So, if I get up and walk away from my keyboard to do something while waiting it won't be reportable then?

You're adding caveats to the rules that don't exist. Maybe I was at my keyboard but got momentarily distracted chatting with my FC; not bannable.

Whether or not it's breaking the ToS depends 100% on intent; not your proximity to a controller or keyboard, or whether your reasons for not participating exist inside or outside of the game.

Yep, which is why admitting to intentionally 'disrupting' the gameplay experience for other players probably will and has gotten players banned, while I doubt players are getting banned for saying "sorry have to afk". However, "waiting"' for a player can be viewed as intent to be disruptive, because a player who is willfully not participating in content - and stating such - is disrupting the gameplay experience for the player(s) who pulled.

Saying, "sorry have to afk" is still willfully not participating in the content and stating such, though. The key is stating your actual intention to disrupt the group in chat. Announcing you let someone die because you don't like them would be actionable. Saying you were just waiting for a new player to catch up wouldn't be.

[SturmChurro]

So, if I get up and walk away from my keyboard to do something while waiting it won't be reportable then?

You're adding caveats to the rules that don't exist. Maybe I was at my keyboard but got momentarily distracted chatting with my FC; not bannable.

Whether or not it's breaking the ToS depends 100% on intent; not your proximity to a controller or keyboard, or whether your reasons for not participating exist inside or outside of the game.

If a player were to "wait" specifically due to a pull in a cutscene, and willfully not participate, seeing as others have apparently gotten banned for specifically 3.2, it is against the ToS. The problem is proving the intent to be 'disruptive'.

[Goji1639]

If a player were to "wait" specifically due to a pull in a cutscene, and willfully not participate, seeing as others have apparently gotten banned for specifically 3.2, it is against the ToS. The problem is proving the intent to be 'disruptive'.

The problem is that there is no intent to be disruptive in simply waiting for someone. To be honest, pulling before everyone is ready is probably easier to interpret as being disruptive.

[SturmChurro]

The problem is that there is no intent to be disruptive in simply waiting for someone. To be honest, pulling before everyone is ready is probably easier to interpret as being disruptive.

Players have the option to automatically skip cutscenes, many times it's completely on accident to pull early; it's not necessarily intentional, it's general routine. It's very easy to miss someone is still in a cutscene, and for that matter, I'm pretty sure there is a way to actually watch them after the fact. More often than not players aren't watching cutscenes, and if a player is watching a cutscene, they can still participate after it (in most cases). Choosing not to participate, is, however, intentional, and stating such is seemingly actionable.

[Trobon]

If a player were to "wait" specifically due to a pull in a cutscene, and willfully not participate, seeing as others have apparently gotten banned for specifically 3.2, it is against the ToS. The problem is proving the intent to be 'disruptive'.

Well then people are left in a no win situation other than not admit anything in chat. Because pulling early before everyone is ready is disrupting other people’s play as well. So if I’m in a group and one person is in a cutscene and another pulls my only option is to just not say anything. If I join the fight I can be reported for disrupting the cutscene viewers play (since they don’t know who pulled) and if I don’t join I can be reported for disrupting the pullers play. It seems like my best option is to just not talk at all.

I guess this is what FF XIV’s stellar community has come to.

[Sotaris]

I guess this is what FF XIV’s stellar community has come to.

Good then that only a small minority is on these forums and reddit.

I'm a new player and I nearly quit the game yesterday due to players behaving this way. I came to this game because I heard the community was better, I have learned that they can be just as selfish and unhelpful as others.

They made me feel like I was a burden to their group, they just wanted to pull everything fast and just get everything done as quickly as possible. They didn't care one bit if there was a new player in the group, as a Black Mage I barely even got any casts off because of how they were playing.

I couldn't even tell them to slow down because they were pulling so fast and starting cut scenes before I got a chance to say anything, even doing skips that I was unaware of. I was not impressed by this experience, I'm still debating if I should subscribe to this game, if players are going to be so impatient and indifferent then it is not worth it.

Sorry you experienced that.
It goes without saying but don't let few bad apples ruin the game for you. Hopefully you did decide to stick around.

Would be a shame for someone to quit over something like this.

If you don't like the game, then fine.

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

If a player were to "wait" specifically due to a pull in a cutscene, and willfully not participate, seeing as others have apparently gotten banned for specifically 3.2, it is against the ToS. The problem is proving the intent to be 'disruptive'.

Give me one topic with someone posting picture proof of a convo with a GM where someone has gotten banned explicitly for waiting for someone in a cutscene citing 3.2. Considering GMs have already ruled kicking for playstyle differences is an actual reason, I find it extremely sketch they wouldn't have immediately burst out laughing while they throw out a report someone made of someone waiting for another in a cutscene, let alone actually suspend someone for it.

Besides, 3.2 is an incredibly bad clause to whip out in defense of early pulling, since by its own definition, the cutscene watcher can report the early puller as disrupting their gameplay as the early puller is ruining their complete dungeon experience.