Pulling During Cutscene

[Goji1639]

Sigh. This is getting ridiculous having to really explain what is actually said rather than have you twist it into what you want to argue against.
So let me explain using a scenario.
We will say, a dps is new. Only the 1 dps. Reach the final boss. Dps is in cut scene, and only the dps. Tank pulls. Healer disagrees because they believe the dps should be able to partipate in the whole fight and the tank should have waited for cutscene to finish. So healer stays behind barrier, and tank dies. What the healer did, CHOOSING not to participate, is reportable.
No where did I say watching cutscenes is reportable. Good try though.

It's only against the ToS if the non-participation is intended to grief the party. It's not against the ToS to be AFK or not paying attention for a brief period when someone runs ahead and pulls. It's also not directly against the ToS to decide to wait for everyone to be present before engaging yourself; if someone else runs ahead before the party is ready there's no ToS obligation to save them.

Anything about non-participation in the ToS is strictly related to people who are intending to grief the party by not participating at all; it doesn't mean you can report anyone who doesn't immediately run in to save you when you do something stupid.

[Kolaina]

snip

Snorky. Let me help you follow along.
Someone said about choosing not to help if someone pulls.
The reply to that was actively not participating is against the TOS
YOU said that person never said about not participating
I replied, pointing out the implication of just that
Someone said its not against the TOS to wait for someone in cs
I reiterated saying choosing not to participate is actually against the tos
You, without comprehension, suggested I said watching a cutscene is reportable
I explained to you what was actually said, while clearly stating, nowhere did I say what you were accusing me of
So currently, the topic at hand is not my defence of something, but a warning. If you, or others want to risk the sub you paid, lose that money, and all that time, by choosing to stand back when the fight is activated, for the purpose of activism, that is your choice to risk your accounts and money.
You do you

[Snorky]

It's only against the ToS if the non-participation is intended to grief the party. It's not against the ToS to be AFK or not paying attention for a brief period when someone runs ahead and pulls. It's also not directly against the ToS to decide to wait for everyone to be present before engaging yourself; if someone else runs ahead before the party is ready there's no ToS obligation to save them.

Anything about non-participation in the ToS is strictly related to people who are intending to grief the party by not participating at all; it doesn't mean you can report anyone who doesn't immediately run in to save you when you do something stupid.

Thank you Goji1639.

@Kolaina you do you and I will still be polite and do my best not to ruin others fun.

[Kaoru_Nagisa]

I don't really understand this point of view. The tank tries to force the entire group into a situation that none of them wants by pulling during a cutscene, and everyone else is just obligated to be supportive of that unilateral decision why? Too many people in this game feel like they should be able to force the groups hand and have everyone just be cool about it.

If you pull during a cutscene you'd better be able to survive alone until the cutscene is over; and I guess in many situations tanks can. I do believe, at least, that if you can carry the weight of your decisions without any help then you're less obligated to consult or consider the group.

I still think it's a dick move to pull on a new player, but it's even worse if you need to beg for help and try to make the entire group complicit in your selfish nonsense.

I mean, why do you assume it's someone forcing others? Why do you assume no one wants them to pull because someone might be in cutscene? Most groups I run into just want to get in and out fast, so if a tank or healer runs into the boss room, they follow. I think in 4-man content it's polite to wait on cutscenes, yes, but I'm not going to throw a big hissy fit like a lot of y'all if someone pulls before the cutscener is out - and I'm definitely not going to abandon my job I queued for just because some people on a forum think it's the 'moral high ground' to actively sabotage a boss pull.

Then again, I'm talking to a guy who follows around anyone who's ever so much as told him his egotistical manchild way of playing the game and treating other players is wrong, to basically every thread they post in. Dunno what I expect out of you, Goji. You're probably the best example of egotistical and selfish toxicity I've ever seen on these forums, so you really don't have much ground to be moral grandstanding on.

Either way, comes down to this: refusing to do your job in content you queued for is reportable. Someone pulling the boss - accidentally, intentionally, whatever - before everyone in a dungeon or raid is out of cutscene isn't. That's just the facts, regardless of what people think about doing so.

[Goji1639]

I mean, why do you assume it's someone forcing others? Why do you assume no one wants them to pull because someone might be in cutscene? Most groups I run into just want to get in and out fast, so if a tank or healer runs into the boss room, they follow. I think in 4-man content it's polite to wait on cutscenes, yes, but I'm not going to throw a big hissy fit like a lot of y'all if someone pulls before the cutscener is out - and I'm definitely not going to abandon my job I queued for just because some people on a forum think it's the 'moral high ground' to actively sabotage a boss pull.

Then again, I'm talking to a guy who follows around anyone who's ever so much as told him his egotistical manchild way of playing the game and treating other players is wrong, to basically every thread they post in. Dunno what I expect out of you, Goji. You're probably the best example of egotistical and selfish toxicity I've ever seen on these forums, so you really don't have much ground to be moral grandstanding on.

Either way, comes down to this: refusing to do your job in content you queued for is reportable. Someone pulling the boss - accidentally, intentionally, whatever - before everyone in a dungeon or raid is out of cutscene isn't. That's just the facts, regardless of what people think about doing so.

I don't assume anything, and that's the point. The only person that's making an assumption is the tank who pulled the boss during a cutscene and expected everyone else to just fall in line with his decision. All anyone is saying is that pulling during a cutscene is rude and you shouldn't do it. Apparently people feeling that way is prompting you to throw a "hissy fit."

Also, not sure why you're making up a bunch of crap about me. I've never followed around anyone and harassed them about old discussions. Plenty of people here seem to like to do that to me, but that's definitely not my style.

Finally, it's not reportable because they're not refusing to do their job. They're just waiting for the entire party to be ready before engaging, which isn't against the rules.

[Kaoru_Nagisa]

I don't assume anything, and that's the point. The only person that's making an assumption is the tank who pulled the boss during a cutscene and expected everyone else to just fall in line with his decision. All anyone is saying is that pulling during a cutscene is rude and you shouldn't do it. Apparently people feeling that way is prompting you to throw a "hissy fit."

Also, not sure why you're making up a bunch of crap about me. I've never followed around anyone and harassed them about old discussions. Plenty of people here seem to like to do that to me, but that's definitely not my style.

Finally, it's not reportable because they're not refusing to do their job. They're just waiting for the entire party to be ready before engaging, which isn't against the rules.

You do like to assume anyone who disagrees with your bad takes is throwing a hissy fit, don't you? Dunno bud, I don't see me screaming and throwing my fists or slinging insults towards people who think it's fine if pulls occur before everyone's out of a cutscene. Is it rude? Sure, a little. But not something I feel is as big a deal as people in this thread make it out to be, and certainly not worth sabotaging a boss pull or cursing out the puller in typical GCBTW fashion.

You did very much assume that a tank pulling a boss before one person is out of cutscenes was forcing the party to do something, though. Now that someone pointed it out, you backpedal and claim you don't assume anything, except of the tank pulling. As you tend to do; your go-to during disagreements is gaslighting the other side to try and make yourself look better on a singular post basis. You are not really subtle in the way you act towards people or how often you show up in threads where the same few posters post in. That as well as all your prior behavior and words are why people bring up your old takes. Because they show a pattern in the way you think and approach other people.

And it definitely is reportable. But by all means, try it yourself. Enjoy the GM calls when you get reported for refusing to do the job you signed up for content with.

I added my own take on the thread topic, though, and I'm definitely not interested in having one of your usual circular "discussions", so have fun with the echo chamber my dude.

[Goji1639]

Snip

Eh, an entire paragraph of your previous post was insulting me, so yea, you're kind of throwing a fit. I haven't insulted you once, however.

Also, I didn't assume anything. A tank pulling is attempting to force the parties hand. They started the lockdown timer and engaged the boss without consulting anyone, assuming everyone else would just fall in line and back them up. These are facts.

And finally, it's not reportable. I mean, I guess you can technically report anything, but it's not against the ToS. Non-participation with the intention of griefing the party is against the ToS. Non-participation because you're AFK, distracted or waiting for the entire party to be ready is fine.

Go ahead and report people for everything that can be interpreted as not participating, though, regardless of intention. You'll probably just get your own account actioned for abusing the report function.

[Kolaina]

Tank runs in. Healer doesn’t follow. Tank and potentially dps who followed die. Healer states was waiting for cs. Knowing full well the result, and acknowledging they intentionally stayed out of fight. Go ahead, take that risk goji. Its your account, not mine. But I will go in and help my team. THAT is what I signed up for

[Goji1639]

Tank runs in. Healer doesn’t follow. Tank and potentially dps who followed die. Healer states was waiting for cs. Knowing full well the result, and acknowledging they intentionally stayed out of fight. Go ahead, take that risk goji. Its your account, not mine. But I will go in and help my team. THAT is what I signed up for

It's not a risk. In terms of how "against the ToS" that is, it's basically like saying "sorry, got a phone call" after the tank and DPS die. If the intent of your brief non-participation isn't to grief your team then you're fine.

If helping the tank make the new player feel uncomfortable is what you signed up for, then do your thing. Don't perpetuate the self-serving lie that deciding to wait for the new player is against the ToS, though, because it's not.

[Kolaina]

It's not a risk. In terms of how "against the ToS" that is, it's basically like saying "sorry, got a phone call" after the tank and DPS die. If the intent of your brief non-participation isn't to grief your team then you're fine.

If helping the tank make the new player feel uncomfortable is what you signed up for, then do your thing. Don't perpetuate the self-serving lie that deciding to wait for the new player is against the ToS, though, because it's not.

So you will lie. Shows all I need to know about your character