Pulling During Cutscene

[Lunalepsy]

I want to preface this by stating that although I am speaking from experience, I am not speaking as the puller, simply as a bystander who has defended pulling during cutscene before.

I don’t understand why this is an issue. I’m sorry, I don’t. And no, I’m not naïve, either. I want to know, though, what you think of it.

As it stands, my thoughts are this:

Pulling during cutscene doesn’t matter. At all. It does not kick the watcher out of cutscene, and it’s not like they miss any important mechanics, either. Because one [1] they’re either going to run the content at hand again, so they will be able to see the mechanic they missed, or two [2] they’re never going to run that content again. So again, why does it matter?

And then you have the “good guys”, let’s call them. The people who will get absolutely vitriolic with you because how dare you be impatient and not wait for the cutscene watcher. It doesn’t matter if you’ve run this content a million times. It doesn’t matter how old it may be. The fact of the matter is you pulled during a cutscene and therefore you are the worst human being alive and deserve to be shunned by the rest of the ~community~.

I’m not even being hyberbolic, here. I have seen people call out pullers by name and try and get everyone else to attack them as well. But it’s okay, because these people are the heroes and the puller is the villain! Pay no mind to the harassment and threats they are dishing out because they’re doing it to “defend” a new person. I have seen people call pullers “toxic trash”, spewing expletives about how awful a person they are, trying to rally the other members of the alliance to blacklist and report. Like, hello? How is that okay? You may not agree with pulling during cutscene, but to verbally attack someone who does is not and never will be okay.

I have mentioned before that not everyone has all the time in the world to wait for everyone to watch every cutscene. And in response, I had people telling me that “if [my] time is so important, maybe [I] shouldn’t play.” Or, here’s a thought, because my free time is so limited, I want to actually, y’know... enjoy it?

The argument is always along the lines of pulling during cutscene “ruins” players experiences. Well, on the other side of that, maybe waiting for cutscene for every single piece of content, and getting reemed out by the general public if you don’t conform also ruins players’ experiences. Is it not hypocritical to become the toxic person you’re claiming the puller to be? How does that make you the hero?

This is my first forum post. But I am not stranger to the forums, I do expect to be attacked by these same “good guys” I’m talking about. But I would like to hear your thoughts.

Welcome to the forums! Enjoy your stay.

[Goji1639]

Players have the option to automatically skip cutscenes, many times it's completely on accident to pull early; it's not necessarily intentional, it's general routine. It's very easy to miss someone is still in a cutscene, and for that matter, I'm pretty sure there is a way to actually watch them after the fact. More often than not players aren't watching cutscenes, and if a player is watching a cutscene, they can still participate after it (in most cases). Choosing not to participate, is, however, intentional, and stating such is seemingly actionable.

Someone who pulls during a cutscene can say it was an accident, but so can someone who doesn't follow the tank into the boss room. I know a lot of times when I see a cutscene rolling, especially if I know it's a long one, I'll tune out for a little bit; maybe pop up my browser or turn my attention to my television. More often than not everyone lets new players watch cutscenes, so I'm not wrong to assume an active cutscene means downtime.

End of the day intentionally pulling during a cutscene is clear intent to disrupt the party. Waiting for a new player isn't clear intent to disrupt the party.

[TroySoFab]

Someone who pulls during a cutscene can say it was an accident, but so can someone who doesn't follow the tank into the boss room. I know a lot of times when I see a cutscene rolling, especially if I know it's a long one, I'll tune out for a little bit; maybe pop up my browser or turn my attention to my television. More often than not everyone lets new players watch cutscenes, so I'm not wrong to assume an active cutscene means downtime.

Actually they are not both accidents. Standing outside the boss room for a prolonged period of time isn't an accident, it is something you are actively doing (or in this case not doing). Which can be vote kicked for being AFK. If I'm a tank, I'm not usually focused on the party list, so I can easily miss someone being listed as "viewing cutscene". And in an alliance raid, I have no real way of seeing if someone in the other two parties is in a cutscene.

End of the day intentionally pulling during a cutscene is clear intent to disrupt the party. Waiting for a new player isn't clear intent to disrupt the party.

Except its not. Its a way to advance the party through the fight. It disrupts no one. I don't think there is anything wrong if the party wants to wait, but ultimately pulling the boss is up to the tank (or tanks) discretion.

[Goji1639]

Standing outside the boss room for a prolonged period of time isn't an accident, it is something you are actively doing (or in this case not doing).

Pulling the boss prematurely is something you're actively doing to, so does that mean it's never an accident? Not sure what your logic is here.

Except its not. Its a way to advance the party through the fight. It disrupts no one. I don't think there is anything wrong if the party wants to wait, but ultimately pulling the boss is up to the tank (or tanks) discretion.

If the party wants to wait for everyone it disrupts the parties plan to wait. If the new player wants to participate in the entire fight it disrupts his ability to watch the cutscene. Pulling the boss may be up to the tank, but whether the rest of the group wants to follow him in is up to the rest of the group. As I've been saying, there's nothing about waiting for the entire party to be ready that's against the ToS.

[TroySoFab]

Pulling the boss prematurely is something you're actively doing to, so does that mean it's never an accident? Not sure what your logic is here.

Not sure what your getting at here? I replied to your response implying that standing outside the boss room could be seen as an accident, which unless it is for a very short period of time, it never is an accident. The boss room is clearly defined. With pulling a boss during a cutscene yes it can be an accident at times. Especially in alliance raids when you can't even see if players in the other parties are in cutscenes easily. And in smaller parties it is entirely possible for the tank to overlook someone's name being listed as "viewing cutscene".

If the party wants to wait for everyone it disrupts the parties plan to wait. If the new player wants to participate in the entire fight it disrupts his ability to watch the cutscene. Pulling the boss may be up to the tank, but whether the rest of the group wants to follow him in is up to the rest of the group. As I've been saying, there's nothing about waiting for the entire party to be ready that's against the ToS.

Not sure why you think anyone is saying waiting for players is against the ToS. I haven't perused through all the responses here, but I haven't seen one person imply that. And I don't think anyone (seriously) will. Secondly, no one is ever disrupted from watching a cutscene. They can be viewed again at an inn room. Also what do you do when part of the party wants to wait, and part doesn't? What about when most of the party doesn't want to wait? Who is disrupting who?

[Goji1639]

Not sure what your getting at here? I replied to your response implying that standing outside the boss room could be seen as an accident, which unless it is for a very short period of time, it never is an accident. The boss room is clearly defined. With pulling a boss during a cutscene yes it can be an accident at times. Especially in alliance raids when you can't even see if players in the other parties are in cutscenes easily. And in smaller parties it is entirely possible for the tank to overlook someone's name being listed as "viewing cutscene".

Like I said, someone might go AFK momentarily outside the bossroom because they see that someone is watching the cutscene, so that means they have some time. There's no way to know that the tank is going to pull prematurely, and no rule that obligates you to engage with the tank before the rest of the party is ready. There actually is a way for the tank to know if someone's watching a cutscene, though; just look at the party window (super easy). As for Alliance raids, that's what the ready check is for.

Not sure why you think anyone is saying waiting for players is against the ToS. I haven't perused through all the responses here, but I haven't seen one person imply that. And I don't think anyone (seriously) will. Secondly, no one is ever disrupted from watching a cutscene. They can be viewed again at an inn room. Also what do you do when part of the party wants to wait, and part doesn't? What about when most of the party doesn't want to wait? Who is disrupting who?

People who don't engage with the tank when he pulls during a cutscene are just waiting for the entire party to be ready. Plenty of people are here trying to say that's against the ToS.

Also, when you engage the boss it sends a message to the new player that they will be locked out of the fight in 15 seconds; which to most new players reads as they NEED to skip the cutscene or they'll miss the fight or the group might wipe for being shorthanded. That's pretty disruptive. Needing to watch everything in the inn after the fact not only ruins the flow of the narrative, but not everything is available at the inn.

[Baxcel]

Actually they are not both accidents. Standing outside the boss room for a prolonged period of time isn't an accident, it is something you are actively doing (or in this case not doing). Which can be vote kicked for being AFK. If I'm a tank, I'm not usually focused on the party list, so I can easily miss someone being listed as "viewing cutscene". And in an alliance raid, I have no real way of seeing if someone in the other two parties is in a cutscene.

Not to be rude or anything.. but even with skip already seen cutscenes turned on.. your screen flashes black for a moment to load in the boss.. train your brain or mind to look at the party list once that flash happens to see if anyone is in a cutscene and you'll never accidently early pull again.

[ForctyusGold]

uh oh. really. it doesnt matter if its okay or against ToS.
it really can happen by accident, sometimes experienced player start the fight, sometimes sprout.

how often this happen to you exactly ? like i can tell maybe 1 from 50 runs of something or more.
and most important, most of cutscenes arent so important, its just presentation of boss , if there is some dialog, i dont remember exacly how many dungs/ raid have it. and lastly. how to check some watching cutscene when doing 24 main raid ? asking in chat ? using Ready check , i dont think its best tool for that, since some people dont care to click on it anyway.

[RitsukoSonoda]

Are people still arguing here over whether or not to be courteous to other people?

[Sotaris]

Are people still arguing here over whether or not to be courteous to other people?

yes. It's quite amusing to read the back and forth tbh.

person a: waiting is disrupting!
person b: premature pulling is disrupting!

There is no end. It's like Yoshidas talking point on 3rd party application "is a calc a 3rd party tool? Excel? A browser?"