Open World PvP

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

This is incorrect. While not a twitch streamer, LazyPeon got sent death threts to the point he had to take down his entire youtube video because people were literally doxxing his address. Guess why they sent him that? Because he criticized the game. Again, you would have the right of it, if it wasnt something thats occurred many times. One or two times is a mistake. 3 or more is a pattern. In 14's case, its a pattern. It's a known problem in this community that it cannot take criticism, both inside the game and outside of it. Theres a problem with this culture of enabling things that shouldnt be enabled. Handwaving it is why its becoming more rampant as the days go by. Just look at the posts in the asmongold thread lmao. People gatekeeping and hoping he never comes. That's why i bring up its funny that people critique other games so harshly but then wont even be open to people from other games coming. It's why i hope one of these upcoming mmo's just shits on 14. Maybe then it'll give this community the reality check it deserves.

Every mmo thats released since XIV has been said "it'll kill xiv" BDO, Arch Age (hah, remember that one?!)

Also, I remember watching lazy peons video. He didn't provide criticism so much as he crapped on the game.

From my experience most people who are upset about asmongold coming over are former WoW players, as they are the ones who know who he is. I'd never heard of him until recently

also, I find it funny you accuse others of being unable to take criticism, while being unable t do so about ashes yourself. Plus, theres a LOT of PvP "gatekeeping" in this thread.

[Velnora]

Every mmo thats released since XIV has been said "it'll kill xiv" BDO, Arch Age (hah, remember that one?!)

Also, I remember watching lazy peons video. He didn't provide criticism so much as he crapped on the game.

From my experience most people who are upset about asmongold coming over are former WoW players, as they are the ones who know who he is. I'd never heard of him until recently

Differentiate between criticism and "crapping on the game". How is that an excuse for death threats and doxxing?

I don't know how you can criticize a game that isn't even out yet.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Differentiate between criticism and "crapping on the game". How is that an excuse for death threats and doxxing?

I don't know how you can criticize a game that isn't even out yet.

I never excused it. I don't think anyone should get death threats no matter what they say. But certain people like to pretend the XIV community pretends those instances never happened and we were all behind it. We weren't. People condemned the threats then.

People gave lots of criticism to XIV in 1.0s alpha and beta. They saw where it was going, and didn't think it was going to be good, gave feedback to the devs, it was ignored, and we saw how that went.

Criticism is "this could be made better by changing this aspect" Crapping on is "this sucks and i hate it, change it and make it better. also this game has no story, i dont know why XIV fans keep saying it has a good story"

since when were they ... "XIV killers"? lol, thats hilarious. only way I have ever heard that reference was for WoW, how the next mmo was the "WoW Killer"

If you dig back to when they released, you'll find threads here on the forums about it.

[Kes13a]

Every mmo thats released since XIV has been said "it'll kill xiv" BDO, Arch Age (hah, remember that one?!)

Also, I remember watching lazy peons video. He didn't provide criticism so much as he crapped on the game.

From my experience most people who are upset about asmongold coming over are former WoW players, as they are the ones who know who he is. I'd never heard of him until recently

also, I find it funny you accuse others of being unable to take criticism, while being unable t do so about ashes yourself. Plus, theres a LOT of PvP "gatekeeping" in this thread.

since when were they ... "XIV killers"? lol, thats hilarious. only way I have ever heard that reference was for WoW, how the next mmo was the "WoW Killer"

[KizuyaKatogami]

Every mmo thats released since XIV has been said "it'll kill xiv" BDO, Arch Age (hah, remember that one?!)

Also, I remember watching lazy peons video. He didn't provide criticism so much as he crapped on the game.

From my experience most people who are upset about asmongold coming over are former WoW players, as they are the ones who know who he is. I'd never heard of him until recently

also, I find it funny you accuse others of being unable to take criticism, while being unable t do so about ashes yourself. Plus, theres a LOT of PvP "gatekeeping" in this thread.

Yes, when criticism is applicable. Not when the game is still in early testing stages. Criticism should also be done only when theres been ample research done for whatever you are critiquing. Yes, LazyPeon's video was poorly done. If you look at my other posts where i've mentioned him, i agree it was bias against 14. That said however...

Might help if context was provided as to why their "review" may have set a few people off.

but sure, doing what they did wouldnt have offended any vocal player base in any mmo....ever....

It doesnt matter the context. Death threats and doxxing isnt good period. It doesnt matter what the person did,because as weve seen in the Scottzone sitatuon, someone can give the tiniest piece of criticism and still be doxxed and get death threats from this community. These are only the two big people its happened to. There've been smaller ones as well.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Yes, when criticism is applicable. Not when the game is still in early testing stages. Criticism should also be done only when theres been ample research done for whatever you are critiquing. Yes, LazyPeon's video was poorly done. If you look at my other posts where i've mentioned him, i agree it was bias against 14. That said however...



It doesnt matter the context. Death threats and doxxing isnt good period. It doesnt matter what the person did,because as weve seen in the Scottzone sitatuon, someone can give the tiniest piece of criticism and still be doxxed and get death threats from this community. These are only the two big people its happened to. There've been smaller ones as well.

Criticism is valid whenever a game is in a playable state for testing. I played the "pre-alpha" for Ashes at Pax Prime like.... 2 or 3 years ago. It should be beyond "no criticism stage" by now. The game is outside of the significant design change stage of its development. Just like XIV was during 1.0s alpha and beta. Those criticisms to 1.0 during those stages were definitely valid.

In fact, its the best time to provide criticism, in case there is even the slightest chance of fixing major issues.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Criticism is valid whenever a game is in a playable state for testing. I played the "pre-alpha" for Ashes at Pax Prime like.... 2 or 3 years ago. It should be beyond "no criticism stage" by now. The game is outside of the significant design change stage of its development. Just like XIV was during 1.0s alpha and beta. Those criticisms to 1.0 during those stages were definitely valid.

In fact, its the best time to provide criticism, in case there is even the slightest chance of fixing major issues.

I agree with you to a degree. I do think its best to critique a game fairly early on because like you said, major issues should be brought to attention as early as possible.The thing i kind of disagree with though is critiquing something without having the full picture. They themselves have said the pvp gameplay and such is something theyre spending a lot of time on. I dont really have a problem with the money nor the time its taking for the mmo to come out because i would rather they take thei time and fine tune things instead of rush it out. I will say the money thing did weird me out at first and almost put me off, but when i saw how dedicated the devs were it kind of put me at ease. I take solace int he fact that they're major nerds and they genuinely do seem to want to create the "perfect" mmo that makes everyone of all different content types happy. A bold effort to be sure but not one i'd say will die off so soon. Im certainly more interested and curious in how it goes that its actually taken my hype away from 6.0.

[ElciaDeiLinus]

Yes, when criticism is applicable. Not when the game is still in early testing stages. Criticism should also be done only when theres been ample research done for whatever you are critiquing. Yes, LazyPeon's video was poorly done. If you look at my other posts where i've mentioned him, i agree it was bias against 14. That said however...

I'm looking forward to Ashes- which is why I'd rather have criticism be allowed- it does look to be bad form when people saying that Ashes isn't subject to criticism also lament that FFXIV players don't allow criticism. I'd even say that early testing is when criticism is most valuable because it gives the most time for there to be fixes. Should a game be panned and declared a failure in alpha/beta? No- but criticized? Absolutely.

As for players in FFXIV- or people using the internet in general- when there's millions of players, and a few of those are extremely awful people- can a great community do anything to stop them? I don't think it's possible. The community can set the tone of what's acceptable- now, if people were doxxing, threatening, casting slurs, stalking openly, harassing people on the forums, etc like we get in WoW... and the community was joining in, that'd be different.

If we had a situation like we did in WoW where the top guild doxx'd/threatened players in classic and got no punishment from Blizz and no real community pushback- a situation where we know who did it and nobody really cared- I think that'd be very concerning.

But do we know who threatened the streamers? If they're even in our community and not the streamers? (Asmon, for example, has a group of very vitriolic people who stalk him with ill intent in his own community, as seen from his encounters with stream sniping in Classic)

Can the community stop those people from making threats? That's always the most important question- what can the community do? Because we aren't all powerful, there are things we as a community can do to make a game far more welcoming, and streamers/SE having zero tolerance for toxicity (watch Zepla's latest vid, she makes it very clear she won't stand for it) are things we can do to make it better. But realistically, nobody can stop individuals from doing awful things. That doesn't make a community bad, that just means that a community can't solve every problem.

And I think when you have a community that tries hard to be as positive, welcoming and friendly as possible and most love that aspect of the community- and people keep saying the community is awful because there's a few people who do awful things in it, of course people will be unhappy with that.

Cuz nobody is happy with being blamed for something they didn't do, are against, and have no control over.