Mentor Roulette should have longer lockout time

[Krotoan]

The purpose of mentor roulette is to reduce queue times by allowing players to queue as a wildcard. The rewards are low enough for it to be a “for fun” justification only in the case of the player, unless that player wants to go for the achievement.

Then why isn't there just a "absolutely everything" queue? Why make being a mentor a requirement?

The penalty for staying is greater than the penalty for leaving. It’s not a job, and you can’t force them to stay.

Nobody forced anyone to sign up for the mentor program either though. I think a very large population of "mentors" or at least the ones who balk at finishing what they queued up for only saw the shinies and not the actual purpose. It is not a penalty to help others, it was the entire idea behind the program. If you don't wish to subject yourself to the possibilities, don't queue at all.

Being a mentor should never have been rewarded with items the general player base just wants. The non-asian players are just too self interested. Note that I don't think this is necessarily a problem with the player base, just that the program does NOT fit your average non-asia based player. The culture and general attitudes work against the intent.

[ZedxKayn]

Then why isn't there just a "absolutely everything" queue? Why make being a mentor a requirement?

Beats me, because filling has absolutely nothing to do with mentoring.

Nobody forced anyone to sign up for the mentor program either though. I think a very large population of "mentors" or at least the ones who balk at finishing what they queued up for only saw the shinies and not the actual purpose. It is not a penalty to help others, it was the entire idea behind the program. If you don't wish to subject yourself to the possibilities, don't queue at all.

At least two of us in this very thread have said that we don't care about the shinies. But the problem isn't that we don't want to help, it's that we don't want to waste energy with people who don't want to be helped. If a sprout tank is chain pulling Ramuh EX before we can explain any mechanic, or people don't even try to place the titan gaols correctly after 10 pulls, what are we supposed to do? Stay the entire lock out for absolutely nothing?
The mentor roulette has no reason to be and EX shouldn't be in it because of the nature of EX content. It's really weird to encourage sprouts to use DF for something that would have belonged in RF when they might not even understand the basics of their job yet.

[Shialan]

Really? Do you really think that? Do you think it's possible for someone to remember every single fight in this game front to back? If they get into a party and they try their best but the dps/skill is not there, is that their fault?

Yes, I believe that a mentor should know the general strategy of every single fight. That's why they are a mentor and have this special queue. And as a mentor, you have to at least try to clear the content you got put in through that special queue. Even if you are unable to clear it because of your teammates.

[Krotoan]

Beats me, because filling has absolutely nothing to do with mentoring.

So they just arbitrarily picked being a mentor to give access to this backfill queue? Or possibly it has mentor as a requirement to it to put knowledgeable people in those instances who would be willing to help as well as fill space.

At least two of us in this very thread have said that we don't care about the shinies. But the problem isn't that we don't want to help, it's that we don't want to waste energy with people who don't want to be helped. If a sprout tank is chain pulling Ramuh EX before we can explain any mechanic, or people don't even try to place the titan gaols correctly after 10 pulls, what are we supposed to do? Stay the entire lock out for absolutely nothing?

Let them die. Keep explaining. There is absolutely no punishment for wiping. If they continue to pull and not do the mechanics, vote kick them. This isn't expecting you to be Mother Teresa about anything. Personally I think a week lockout is insanity, but it should be a harsher penalty to at least deter people from "meh worth 30 mins to drop this".
Actual gameplay concerns not withstanding why are you even doing the queue if you don't want anything out of it and you're also not willing to do some of the possibilities?

The mentor roulette has no reason to be and EX shouldn't be in it because of the nature of EX content. It's really weird to encourage sprouts to use DF for something that would have belonged in RF when they might not even understand the basics of their job yet.

The "nature" of EX content is just that it requires more attention and more complex patterns. Every one of them had to learned from scratch at one point and expecting everyone to refer to those guides once they're made is telling people how to play. Some people like sussing out details. Some people learn differently and can't just watch a guide and then do it.
It seems to work on the japan servers fine where people are both willing to learn AND teach for the good of everyone there. Again I don't think our player base fits with what it's intended purpose really was. I think they should make the Mentor queue ONLY the difficult instances with unique mechanics. Make another "everything else" queue for what people are actually using the mentor queue for.

It's not like the mentor queue is good for much else other than achievement progress. Every other aspect of it can be duplicated with other roulettes.

[ZedxKayn]

So they just arbitrarily picked being a mentor to give access to this backfill queue?

That honestly sounds about right, just to give mentorship some "flair". You don't need to be a mentor to teach and willingness to fill is completely unrelated to willingness to teach.

Actual gameplay concerns not withstanding why are you even doing the queue if you don't want anything out of it and you're also not willing to do some of the possibilities?

Kill time, without getting frustrated doing so. Until we can queue for several roulettes at the same time, if one wants true RNG, mentor roulette is the only option.

The "nature" of EX content is just that it requires more attention and more complex patterns. Every one of them had to learned from scratch at one point and expecting everyone to refer to those guides once they're made is telling people how to play. Some people like sussing out details. Some people learn differently and can't just watch a guide and then do it.

I'm not sure if you've ever done ARR EX synced as a fresh, new player in ShB, but by the time one gets a quest that tells them to use DF to do extreme, without any warning that hey, it's tough stuff, they are ABSOLUTELY NOT ready to partake in such content yet.
I'm speaking from experience as a sprout and a mentor alike, when the game has been teaching someone so far that they can clear anything with their brain pretty much shut off, they are very unlikely to have a mindset befitting of harder content, the knowledge of their job, role, and overall game mechanics, and the willingness to communicate and get feedback, which are all needed traits to have a pleasant experience in synced EX+ difficulty content, be it ARR or ShB EX+.

[Krotoan]

That honestly sounds about right, just to give mentorship some "flair". You don't need to be a mentor to teach and willingness to fill is completely unrelated to willingness to teach.

A direct quote from Yoshi P. about the new mentor system when it was being released:

a special duty roulette called “Duty Roulette: Mentor” that is only available for mentors will be added. This roulette will grant a priority on matching mentors with new players or players who haven’t beaten the specific dungeon or trial yet.

Sounds to me like it's important that the inexperienced people are being matched with "vets". The systems we have in this game are very deliberate in how they're made. Not saying they all work or even were all GOOD ideas. But they are built with purpose.

Kill time, without getting frustrated doing so. Until we can queue for several roulettes at the same time, if one wants true RNG, mentor roulette is the only option.

And in doing so volunteering for a queue containing things you do not wish to do, at least with the people it was made for. So while I can appreciate what you WANT.. that is not what it is for and complaining that it is not the thing you want or "abusing" it and then rebelling against people who'd like it to be more geared towards it's original purpose is ... well.. a little selfish. Maybe campaign a little for an actual "full RNG" queue.

I'm not sure if you've ever done ARR EX synced as a fresh, new player in ShB, but by the time one gets a quest that tells them to use DF to do extreme, without any warning that hey, it's tough stuff, they are ABSOLUTELY NOT ready to partake in such content yet.
I'm speaking from experience as a sprout and a mentor alike, when the game has been teaching someone so far that they can clear anything with their brain pretty much shut off, they are very unlikely to have a mindset befitting of harder content, the knowledge of their job, role, and overall game mechanics, and the willingness to communicate and get feedback, which are all needed traits to have a pleasant experience in synced EX+ difficulty content, be it ARR or ShB EX+.

I have played since 1.0. I played when ARR MSQ content was not "brain shut off" either. Castrum and Prae required knowing the mechanics or wipes would happen. I am aware of the shock it was to "science" run the EX's when they came out.


But the judgement of whether or not people have the right mindset is found out later. I can understand people trying to run these and once they find their particular instance is full of people both unwilling to learn or adapt, leaving. But right now it's obvious no such chance is being given. People just pop in, notice it's not a cakewalk and bounce.

[ForteNightshade]

I've cleared Throdin Ex synced with sprouts and a missing dps mentor who bailed early one.. only took us about 45min maybe less.. honestly they should make the lockout penalty for mentors who bail the time that would be remaining in the instance they left.. for 90min Ex.. you get a 90min lockout for leaving.

All this does is prompt people to fake a DC or demand they be kicked and refuse to participate. Keep in mind, you can't report them if they're pressing 123 and conveniently not dodging mechanics. Basically, so long as they don't make it obvious, you can do absolutely nothing except kick them.

Simply put, forcing someone to stay who clearly doesn't want to be there will likely make your experience worse.

[Vahlnir]

Simply put, forcing someone to stay who clearly doesn't want to be there will likely make your experience worse.

Yep, this right here.

[Nanchi]

Comparing the JP datacenter with NA/EU is hilarious to me. They have extremely different mindsets and people on the JP datacenter actually know most of the time what they queue for, their community oriented mindset naturally leads them to listen to a veteran.

This is NOT the case here and some statements I've read in this thread reek of entitlement. So it's fine to waste away a willing mentors time because they "signed up for it" but the sprout/booster should not hold any responsibility for being uncooperative or not speaking the same language (which is ofc not their fault). Vote kicking is not a viable solution, it's just more time wasting for everyone involved. I've been there, the amount of parties who managed to complete an ex trial can be counted on one hand, there are just too many negatives involved that could be easily fixed if the game gave newbies an incentive to go to pf and open up a party for those clears. They don't have to watch a guide or anything, just be willing enough to learn.

And the willingness part is not always there in an Ex trial, sprouts are often overwhelmed by the difficulty jump, nowhere does the game prepare them for it and it should not fall on the mentors shoulder to teach them what the game should have done in the first place.

[spf1200]

This whole thread is a pretty good reminder of why the mentor system needs a massive rework. Take the crowns away and take away the reward. This way the only people that are mentors are people that actually want to help new players. Or do a strike system, mentors lose there status as mentor is the leave so many duties, and aren't able to get it back for like 6 months or something.

There is nothing wrong with using DF to do an EX