9S Glam

[Juzjuzz]

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Oh i know, it's not like see a lot of male characters with the new haircut on Chaos or the delubrum haircut as well. I won't be surprised if it's the same on other data centers.

Many outfits/haircuts described as "too masculine" look great on girls (even if they don't like it, it's not ridiculous), yet feminine outfits make males look REALLY goofy if you are not into that.

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The lastest raid has male specific outfits, but female specific outfits as well. And the "unisex-masculine coats" are litterally coats without feminine stuff on it. Does that make it masculine ? Imo it was more unisex.
Isn't the 9S cosplay for healers only outside of the haircut? Then why 2B outfits isnt just for sam/mnk ?

The one free hairstyle we got was unisex as well (it's just a short haircut lol).
For the Ishgardian hairstyle everything is actually closer to unisex lol looks great on both genders, sure it's short but doesnt look bad on girls.
Wind Caller is masculine, i agree and shouldn't have been used as a unisex haircut but there's 2 more feminine haircuts from bojza.
2B/9S haircuts had good balance since it was released at the same time. Without counting them males got 1 masculine "unisex" haircut and females got 2 feminine "unisex" haircuts in shadowbringers. It doesnt look like a lot but if you watch stormblood haircuts it's the same thing and it's just adds up with older haircuts.

Short and not girly stuff =/= masculine. Something boyish is closer to unisex and that's why it's called that way imo, because boys have always a more androgynous look.

Very masculine girl right there : https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...048159eeb2.jpg

Like you said it's not like they gave zero things to males, but it's clear that there's more things for females imo.

Just in case :
Ok Google : 9S Glam FFXIV

Ppl wanted the real 9S outfit (that is already in the game), not something close to it.

[Iscah]

The lastest raid has male specific outfits, but female specific outfits as well. And the "unisex-masculine coats" are litterally coats without feminine stuff on it. Does that make it masculine ? Imo it was more unisex.

And here, I think, is where we run into the "it's all unisex not masculine" argument, because I don't know how this can be resolved.

By your logic, if something is plain it is unisex.

If you add frills and ribbons to it, it becomes feminine and unsuitable for male characters.

So what creates the reverse effect? What can you add to make it so masculine that a female character couldn't wear it?

I honestly don't know if there is anything you can do there unless you can wind people's mindsets back to the era where only men wore pants and women wore skirts - and they would probably be even more inclined to class the plain outfit as masculine because unisex isn't a concept.

This is a society-wide thing, not an FFXIV thing. Women can get away with wearing men's clothes much more easily than men can get away with wearing women's clothes, without being socially labelled as odd or even identified as wearing the "wrong clothes".

The game maybe increases it because the real-world clues of exact style and fit that might tell you a woman is wearing clothes shaped for a man's body aren't there. In-game the outfit becomes more feminine on a female character because it is sized to fit them. So the question comes to clothing style alone, and the markers don't really exist.

Simply enough, "unisex" isn't a third shared type of clothing besides masculine and feminine, but women taking over the male half of a once-binary concept.


TL;DR: Women can wear plain things and frilly things, pants and skirts without being labelled "unfeminine". Men cannot wear frilly things and skirts without being labelled "unmasculine". This is not a problem of FFXIV's making.

Wind Caller is masculine, i agree and shouldn't have been used as a unisex haircut

Whatever you think of their theoretical balance between male and female styles, the solution is not functional genderlocking. It's not any less of a masculine hairstyle because female characters are allowed to equip it.

Conversely, there's no reason the feminine styles should be locked to female characters. If I can get something long and fancy to work well on my male characters, I'd be all for using it.

[Juzjuzz]

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well it's : "It's not unisex, it's masculine. Look boys use it." VS "lol no it's unisex, girls use it as well and it looks great".

It's easier to make something unisex if it's plain.

If you add frills and ribbons on a unisex outfit to make it masculine it will end up different than adding frills and ribbons to make it feminine.

you can and a lot of girls will think it looks goofy on females, because it's not adapted for a female body.

It's a scociety thing and i never said FFXIV has to resolve that. Trying to satisfy ppl who want more masculine things is a bad thing ? I mean ppl here ask for this "If you make a unisex look, don't choose something that look goofy on the males plz". The easy way to make that is to avoid braids, cute ribbons etc.

Instead of making this for the males (look at the poor highlander lmao) : https://ffxivcollect.com/hairstyles/419
Do you really think it males wouldn't look better with something like that ? : https://i2.wp.com/66.media.tumblr.co...e00o1_1280.png
Or this ? : https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dg...20190929111413
And Estinien already has something close right? It's already better, but i don't think it would look that great on a male roe and highlander :s

Men can wear frilly things and skirts but you won't take a feminine outfit/haircut copy paste it on a male without changing anything and see most many straight males think it look super cool (and gay guys here won't like it) and rush to get it, complain about the drop rates etc... xD

Edit: I call something "unisex", when it looks great on both genders (no matter what you are into). Not trying to push a concept, it's easier to make my point like that.

Whatever you think of their theoretical balance between male and female styles, the solution is not functional genderlocking. It's not any less of a masculine hairstyle because female characters are allowed to equip it.

Conversely, there's no reason the feminine styles should be locked to female characters. If I can get something long and fancy to work well on my male characters, I'd be all for using it.

I think genderlocking is a good solution, if there's not enough time to make 1 feminine and 1 masculine option for everyone: make something that looks decent on every race and gender.

[Iscah]

My main point is though, again i point to the new Zadnor sets. Where literally 3 out of the (6?7?) sets are literal female gear just put on a male character. I don’t think they even altered it in any way.

Part 3 gear:

"3 out of 7" is kind of dramatic when it's 1 out of 3 actual designs.

The male version of the DPS gear does get different shorts and the contrast colour piece on the chest is cut differently, and in any case I think character-based outfits make sense to stick close to the character over adapting it.

I do agree they're not always good at making male versions of designs and they miss some chances for really nice things.

Instead of take time to properly alter certain glams so it suits both males and females, we’re just left with really weird either inherently feminine or androgynous gear/hair.
https://imgur.com/dFUrtdj case and point

(Case in point actually, but anyway.)

That's something I find a problem for both genders. I don't like the braids and flyaway bits they keep sticking on the designs either.

I do want to argue "androgynous" though because that specifically implies to me that it looks feminine on a man and masculine on a woman, which is true for some of the designs they bring out, but they also have unisex styles that look like they belong on either gender, and that doesn't make them "not masculine" just because they also look good on women.

I think it comes back to the same problem of women simply having a larger variety of styles considered gender-appropriate for them. They can have short boyish hair but a man can't have long hair in pigtails. The window of "things too masculine to suit a female character" is far far smaller than "things too feminine to suit a male character".

It's easier to make something unisex if it's plain.

If you add frills and ribbons on a unisex outfit to make it masculine it will end up different than adding frills and ribbons to make it feminine.

That's my point. You can't add frills and ribbons to make it masculine, so what do you add instead?

How do you turn a thing from "plain so it's unisex" to "obviously this can only be for men"?

I don't think you can, and I would honestly love to know the answer if there is something.

I think genderlocking is a good solution, if there's not enough time to make 1 feminine and 1 masculine option for everyone: make something that looks decent on every race and gender.

If they have time to make one feminine and one masculine style, great. They can still make both of those styles available to everyone.

If not, the goal of "making every style look great on every race and gender" is exactly how we get mired in nothing but "unisex" styles that are short for women and longish for men and not really satisfying anyone when they just keep coming out with minor variations of the same thing.

The designs should alternate between masculine and feminine (and maybe some things with specific races in mind), but the actual equippability should always be for everyone. If you don't like feminine styles being available to you, you don't need to use them, but it's not offensive that they make it available to you in the first place.

[Juzjuzz]

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I admit it's difficult.
A good example is this : https://pro2-bar-s3-cdn-cf4.myportfo...1789f04909434f
You can't tell me that it wasn't done for a male roe or highlander 1rst. Females can wear it, but a lot of players won't like it. Just like male can wear dresses, but a lot of player don't enjoy it.
And sometimes the adjustments made for female are done for nudity reasons. I'm sure a lot ppl wouldn't mind to see females wearing the exact same thing as this : https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...0f19058426.jpg

Females can look good with almost everything in game, it's really rare to see something that looks as goofy as a male roe with the latest haircut. Even if some dissagree, how many players who play male actually wear it or even tried it ? Most of them would gladly exange for something else.

They are already "alternating" between masculine and feminine, result: bozja got 1 masculine hair + 2 very feminine hair. 1 of the 2 feminine hair could have been androgynous, the last one was easy to change or find something close lmao.

Girls wanted long hair ? Males too you know ? xD here you go :
https://s11.favim.com/orig/7/759/759...om-7590204.png
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/to...path-prefix=fr
males will 100% hate this : https://pm1.narvii.com/5679/dfebe42e...7c997be_hq.jpg
http://images5.fanpop.com/image/answ...es_332_219.jpg
No way females can like thoose.
Solutions exist to make both parts happy but some ppl really want their long braids on shoulder, cute ribbons, cute curly hair etc... Even if males get shit on at the same time.
Even if some don't like short "boyish" hair, they don't look horrible with it. That's why some ppl here like me are unhappy, cute "anime little sister" hair really looks awful on males. Without any alternative it doesnt have to go that far.

[Iscah]

Even if some don't like short "boyish" hair, they don't look horrible with it. That's why some ppl here like me are unhappy, cute "anime little sister" hair really looks awful on males. Without any alternative it doesnt have to go that far.

That is my point.

They could do a 50/50 perfect balance between masculine and feminine styles, and female characters would still have a much higher chance of looking good in the masculine styles than male characters would in the feminine styles.

That's still not a reason to arbitrarily limit those styles to only being worn by the designated gender so you can feel like you're getting something that female characters can't have.

It will look unbalanced, but the alternative is petty.

[Juzjuzz]

so you can feel like you're getting something that female characters can't have.

I don't guive a fuck about that and everyone else in this thread imo ^^'
We just don't want to avoid haircuts that look great on females, then 100% shitty if you play a masculine male character (when there's only 1 new haircut). "everything for everyone" works better for feminine characters only. I'm okay with having 1 less options that feminine characters when 2 haircuts are released at the same time, at least 1 is better than zero.
And genderlocking is just better for us no matter what sadly.

[Lauront]

I think genderlocking is a good solution, if there's not enough time to make 1 feminine and 1 masculine option for everyone: make something that looks decent on every race and gender.

I agree 100%.