Healers Angry when PLD Clemencies

[BaconBits]

ShB Abyssal Drain is a pale shade of what it used to be and I will never forgive SE for taking away my ability to be an hp syphoning battery in trash pulls when using blood weapon + delirium.

[Shurrikhan]

Damage per potency doesn’t seem an accurate metric to compare when magical classes has higher damage per potency to compensate their nonexistent auto attacks vs physical classes, I thought...

Their added damage per potency comes merely from Maim and Mend traits: +20% damage for Physical Ranged classes, +30% damage and healing for Healers and Magical Ranged classes. Melee DPS and Tanks get nothing.

Why do that, and thereby add an extra calculation requirement on a role-by-role basis, rather than merely increasing the potencies of the affected jobs? Who knows. But if it's not somehow simultaneously barebone and convoluted, is it really XIV?

[Jeeqbit]

ShB Abyssal Drain is a pale shade of what it used to be and I will never forgive SE for taking away my ability to be an hp syphoning battery in trash pulls when using blood weapon + delirium.

To be honest, you don't need to be because The Blackest Night is the most powerful mitigation of all of the tanks. You can say Hallowed Ground, but that only lasts 10 seconds. TBN can be used again and again and effectively keeps you at full health most of the time in big pulls, something a paladin can't say unless they spam Clemency. The occasional time you get low with TBN you can actually use Abyssal Drain once to top yourself off.

[Rongway]

Damage per potency doesn’t seem an accurate metric to compare when magical classes has higher damage per potency to compensate their nonexistent auto attacks vs physical classes, I thought...

Two equivalently geared people of any job will do the same damge per potency once you account for -30% (Tank Mastery), 10%/+30% (healer/caster M&M I/II), and +10%/20% (ranger IAD I/II) traits, which is why my calculations multiplied the Holy potency by 1.3. The comparisons are accurate.

You do bring up a good point about auto attacks, though, since PLD auto attacks make T.Eclipse+Prominence higher p/s by at least 25p/s, and stopping to cast Clemency would be more of a damage loss than a WHM stopping to heal, at any level.

[Vyrerus]

Don't mage weapons innately have higher damage not just because of those traits, but because they have a higher magical damage/weapon damage value too?

[BaconBits]

To be honest, you don't need to be because The Blackest Night is the most powerful mitigation of all of the tanks. You can say Hallowed Ground, but that only lasts 10 seconds. TBN can be used again and again and effectively keeps you at full health most of the time in big pulls, something a paladin can't say unless they spam Clemency. The occasional time you get low with TBN you can actually use Abyssal Drain once to top yourself off.

TBN doesn't give me the same amount of serotonin as watching a bunch of spiky red orbs drain the life from my enemies repeatedly and watching my health bar rise back to full in an instant though.

[Bacent]

1) You mean Kwehmency, it's a mistake everyone makes, so don't worry.
2) A lot of inexperienced tanks will use it, not realizing that when they have a cast time they can't block/parry and take more damage. If they're dying it's either because of them not using buffs properly/standing in everything, or the healer(s) not actually healing
3) A select few use it because they know it'll get the healer's goat. I've had someone use it when they were at 85% HP and I was spamming Art of War as Scholar, keeping my heal buff on them (Can't remember the name right now, but big heal when drop under 50% HP) from actually activating and trying to start crap with me.

I know a lot of healers get insulted by default from it because it comes off as a tank wordlessly saying 'the healer isn't doing their job lemme do it', but there's people that have done much worse.

[ReiMakoto]

Only until PLD learns Holy Circle. Holy is more potency per second than T.Eclipse+Prominence but Holy Circle Spam beats Holy by a wiiiiide margin.

Holy 140p x 1.3 (M&M2) / 2.5s ≈ 72.8 p/s
(T.Eclipse 120p + Prominence 220p) / 5.0s ≈ 68 p/s

Requiescat 550p + 5 x 1.5 (Req.) x H.Circle 250p / 5 / 2.5s = 194 p/s
Requiescat 550p + 4 x 1.5 (Req.) x H.Circle 250p + 1.5 x Confiteor 800p / 5 / 2.5s = 260 p/s


Addendum:
Auto-attacks stop while casting Clemency, so the DPS lost is greater than the combo power of 68 p/s, which means Prominence Combo is more DPS than Holy spam at any level.

This is highly innaccurate, you cannot compare tank potency to any other class in the game as they have their own stat scaling formula which gives you less damage per point of main stat versus all the other classes. This is why tank potencies despite being so high, do much less than other classes.

Edit: source: https://www.akhmorning.com/allagan-s...ons/#functions

[Rongway]

you cannot compare tank potency to any other class in the game as they have their own stat scaling formula which gives you less damage per point of main stat versus all the other classes.

You can, if you apply the 0.7x multiplier from Tank Mastery. My post has been updated to reflect this.

[Lanadra]

"You know you dont need to heal me, i got it"
"Why are you healing him just do your own stuff"

Hi all, I am not an expert tank by any means, but I just wanted to discuss or calibrate, is there a Clemency Ethics for PLD?

Are there any times where it's unacceptable to use? Or is it always unacceptable to be used, even that we can tell they are struggling, unless Healers are dead?

Any opinions from healers as well, when do you think it's appropriate to use? What do you think about Clemency in general?

It's not a bait guys, I am just trying to be better at my role, and will take any input. Thanks!

As a WHM who also plays PLD, let me give you my simple view: Use it at your discretion, you feel it's needed? Use it. Best case scenario, you just saved me the need to cast a healing spell, allowing me to cast a Glare or a Holy instead.

Just about the only thing that may have ever slightly annoyed me is when a PLD Clemencies literally as I'm about to finish casting a Cure II.. but in the heat of battle shit like that happens. I don't treat it as something a PLD is doing to get under my skin.

From a PLD pov: I Clemency whenever I feel it needed as well and I've never once seen a healer go at me for it.

Why people are talking about damage potencies or whatever in a thread about Clemency use etiquette... god only knows.