Healers Angry when PLD Clemencies

[Hycinthus]

"You know you dont need to heal me, i got it"
"Why are you healing him just do your own stuff"

Hi all, I am not an expert tank by any means, but I just wanted to discuss or calibrate, is there a Clemency Ethics for PLD?

Are there any times where it's unacceptable to use? Or is it always unacceptable to be used, even that we can tell they are struggling, unless Healers are dead?

Any opinions from healers as well, when do you think it's appropriate to use? What do you think about Clemency in general?

It's not a bait guys, I am just trying to be better at my role, and will take any input. Thanks!

[DragonFlyy]

SCH Main and my Wife is a PLD. She uses it whenever she can to help when needed, even in raids. Use it when you think it's needed, and if anyone complains, ignore them. It's in your toolkit, use it.

[Deceptus]

SCH Main and my Wife is a PLD. She uses it whenever she can to help when needed, even in raids. Use it when you think it's needed, and if anyone complains, ignore them. It's in your toolkit, use it.

I routinely tank and heal and this is a good answer.

If I'm on PLD and I mass pull and the healer is struggling? You bet your @$$ I'm going to use Clemency. A dead tank is a dead party.

My Healer derps and dies on a boss with no RDM/SMN to get them up? I've saved Multiple runs with good time Clemencies.

When I'm on WHM and I see a tank Clemency-ing? More Holy Spam for me! Holy does more damage than tanks AoE in general anyway.

[BaconBits]

If I see a paladin panic-clemency before my excogitation even has a chance to activate I will actually eat my own book.

[Enkidoh]

I routinely tank and heal and this is a good answer.

If I'm on PLD and I mass pull and the healer is struggling? You bet your @$$ I'm going to use Clemency. A dead tank is a dead party.

My Healer derps and dies on a boss with no RDM/SMN to get them up? I've saved Multiple runs with good time Clemencies.

When I'm on WHM and I see a tank Clemency-ing? More Holy Spam for me! Holy does more damage than tanks AoE in general anyway.

^This. Also, there are two potential aspects of PLD where casting Clemency could be considered necessary as part of a PLD's skillset (or at least keeping HP up to maximum) - Divine Veil needs a heal cast on the PLD to activate, and although a lot of PLDs like to save it for later (such as a battlefield wide AoE), given the effect lasts for a fair while if no damage is taken, it can be just as beneficial casting it near the start so procing it via Clemency is definetely acceptable (not to mention DV's cooldown isn't too long so you could potentially use it several times in a fight).

The other potential requirement for Clemency as part of another PLD ability is for Spirits Within which on paper at least does more damage the more HP you have (so theoretically at full HP you do the most damage), however this isn't nearly as effective in reality as Spirits Within has a long cooldown and thus cannot be spammed (if if could, then that would change everything). Also it was my understanding the ratio between current/total HP and damage potency with that particular ability caps around half current/total HP so it wouldn't be quite so critical to keep HP up.

Also Clemency has a trait of healing the PLD casting it by half the normal amount if it's cast on a party member, so it's clear SE actually wants players to make use of it as a pseudo-healer, (which is not surprising given towards the end of 1.0 PLD pretty much was a backup healer due to the only actual healing class/Job in the game being CNJ/WHM - SCH and AST did not exist back then, so PLD's healing skills made sense), as why else would it have such a trait if they did not want you to heal your party? Of course it's entirelly situational, but dismissing it's use outright only handicaps the player in the long run.

[Rongway]

When I'm on WHM and I see a tank Clemency-ing? More Holy Spam for me! Holy does more damage than tanks AoE in general anyway.

Only until PLD learns Holy Circle. Holy is more potency per second than T.Eclipse+Prominence but Holy Circle Spam beats Holy by a wiiiiide margin.

Holy 140p x 1.3 (M&M2) / 2.5s ≈ 72.8 p/s
(T.Eclipse 120p + Prominence 220p) / 5.0s x 0.7 (Tank Mastery) ≈ 48 p/s

Requiescat 550p + 5 x 1.5 (Req.) x H.Circle 250p / 5 / 2.5s x 0.7 (Tank Mastery) ≈ 136 p/s
Requiescat 550p + 4 x 1.5 (Req.) x H.Circle 250p + 1.5 x Confiteor 800p / 5 / 2.5s x 0.7 (Tank Mastery) = 182 p/s


Edit: Applied 0.7x multiplier for Tank Mastery as per Akh Morning's F(AP) formulas for non tanks vs tanks

[ReiMakoto]

Only until PLD learns Holy Circle. Holy is more potency per second than T.Eclipse+Prominence but Holy Circle Spam beats Holy by a wiiiiide margin.

Holy 140p x 1.3 (M&M2) / 2.5s ≈ 72.8 p/s
(T.Eclipse 120p + Prominence 220p) / 5.0s ≈ 68 p/s

Requiescat 550p + 5 x 1.5 (Req.) x H.Circle 250p / 5 / 2.5s = 194 p/s
Requiescat 550p + 4 x 1.5 (Req.) x H.Circle 250p + 1.5 x Confiteor 800p / 5 / 2.5s = 260 p/s


Addendum:
Auto-attacks stop while casting Clemency, so the DPS lost is greater than the combo power of 68 p/s, which means Prominence Combo is more DPS than Holy spam at any level.

This is highly innaccurate, you cannot compare tank potency to any other class in the game as they have their own stat scaling formula which gives you less damage per point of main stat versus all the other classes. This is why tank potencies despite being so high, do much less than other classes.

Edit: source: https://www.akhmorning.com/allagan-s...ons/#functions

[Rongway]

you cannot compare tank potency to any other class in the game as they have their own stat scaling formula which gives you less damage per point of main stat versus all the other classes.

You can, if you apply the 0.7x multiplier from Tank Mastery. My post has been updated to reflect this.

[Quintessa]

SCH Main and my Wife is a PLD. She uses it whenever she can to help when needed, even in raids. Use it when you think it's needed, and if anyone complains, ignore them. It's in your toolkit, use it.

I guess your wife has never used Clemeny during the Excog window which would otherwise render it useless and wasting a recitation/Aetherflow. Or immediately after, or before any lustrates, which again is a wasted Aetherflow. All that has happened to me and I really don't like it, and I feel, given how important each Aetherflow stack is, any SCH would feel the same way, but alright.

[MPK]

Clemency is only used in this game to BM your healers or if your healer is dead and you need to solo a boss or something.