Final Fantasy XIV and a Culture of Enabling

[Vinupra-Rosa]

Here is one problem with your view as per my edit. I do not think speculation can be used to debunk an assertion. The assertion being the vote passed so thus the group was fine with it.

Using my role to my advantage is still speculation on my part since I have no evidence to prove other wise. That is just my theory why it passes.

Nope. You did not phrase it as speculation; you phrased it as an observation, and observations (in this case, that initiating vote dismissal as tank or healer often leads to at least one other person agreeing) can weaken your assertion. It would have been different if you said "I think if..." but you outright stated it as though it were fact. You don't get to retroactively reframe the aforementioned statement as speculation.

The "was it peer pressure?" is the speculation, as your stated observation hints at this speculation.

As for having a friend to stack the vote we are still part of the group and since the person being voted does not get a say in FFXIV the vote remains with the remaining 3 so if it passes even though I brought a friend it is still the will of the group.

But it is NOT the will of the group. It doesn't fall to the remaining "three", it falls to two of that three. Because in 4-man content you only need one other person to vote 'yes' for the motion to pass, then votations with premade are most likely to end up being a just the will of you and one other person who is most likely going to take your side. The remaining member may disagree with your motion, but they cannot contest what is, in essence, a rigged vote.

Therefore it could not be the 'will of the party', as two of four are powerless to the decisions of the other two -who are most likely to agree with one another- regardless of whether or not they would agree with a vote kick.

Your friend may still disagree with your motion, but nonetheless the bias that comes with being a premade is non-negligible. You hinted at this when you phrased it as "having a friend to stack the vote".

Me bringing a friend is moot since they are still part of the group.

You are, in essence, rigging the vote. It's most definitely not moot, especially as you yourself mentioned that you bring friends for the purpose of having 'vote majority'. They're still part of the group, yes, but note the point above involving bias. Also to the point below where you acknowledged that it can be manipulation. (And it is manipulation, or at last an attempt at one)

Granted you could say me bringing a friend is manipulation but then that creates the questions should people that queue together not be able to vote cause it is unfair or should those that group togethers vote be counted as one.

It IS manipulation, and I do agree that premade votes should count as one, for the sake of fairness -- so in the case of a 4-man, if you have brought one other with you, then decision of the fourth member of the party would actually mean something. If you brought three others, then your group becomes the 'party' by default.

Alternatively, and even better, everyone can vote, and premade groups' votes are consolidated -- if majority within premade voted yes, then it counts as a single yes; if tie or majority no, then it counts as a single no.

If SE wants to do something about this then they need to start enforcing their ToS.

They do. I have seen problematic people get penalised and/or banned for violating ToS even if investigations may take weeks. But there's little they can do to act on people who know how to violate ToS without leaving incriminating evidence. And that is exactly what you have been openly indicating on doing for a while now in this thread.

In the end though, the argument here is pointless since Square largely ignores these forums. I DO hope they pay attention though, because vote dismiss abuse is problematic.

Dare I say, your responses have been pretty telling too as to why it's roughly half the groups you get into are 'bad' when I've not see it as that high.

The game already has an option for you to avoid this if it's so intolerable for you.

People who don't meet your standards play the game. People get different things out of the game to you also play. Me? I prefer to help them, because I think it's better, especially if people pay it forward. It was the principle I was met with by FFXI's community back when I was bad at MMO's and once I "got gud" I paid it forward in helping others and have carried the same attitude over and in my experience of this game's community, that's what it usually is but with some bad eggs, but not as many as you imply. That I think is way more positive than "you're bad, stick me with somebody who isn't".

But that said if you prefer to avoid them because you have some nihilistic perspective on this game's community then that's your prerogative, you can make your own groups where you can be more selective than DF.

Well-said!

I too prefer helping rather than complaining by default -- and there's a beautiful joy in seeing people you've mentored become better players than you yourself are. It's for everyone's benefit to, at least, try to offer a helping hand, even if not outright coddle (my teaching methods can be summarised as 'trial by fire'). This applies to people you meet on the regular, and to people you meet on duty finder. You might not exactly see someone you've met on duty finder again, but if you had given them helpful advice and they took to it then people they will be running with in the future will have better runs.

But on that last bit... people have been telling them that they can go in as a premade, that it's a very real and very easy (assuming they have friends) option that acts as a one stop solution to all their problems. Yet they refuse to take the obvious and painless answer and continue complaining about duty finder of all things -- a place where, by default, you should expect people of all skill levels. :/