DPS who pull mobs

[Vahlnir]

I'll remember this rule when I get 2 afk dps in my expert

I've seen many things. Some great, some terrible. This is one thing I have never seen though.

[Zfz]

I'll remember this rule when I get 2 afk dps in my expert. They pay their fair share after all, so I just gotta accept it.

You know full well how pointless your jab is. This has nothing to do with the pull debate.

And no, this has nothing to do about them paying or not, but rather about the reality of the situation. All you can do is report them and accept the reality of getting afkers. If you're lucky a GM responds quickly, or your healer/tank takes the penalty and quit first. If you're not lucky then you just have to take the penalty. What you get is what you get in the DF. What else are you going to do? Rage about the injustices of the world?

[Jijifli]

I've seen many things. Some great, some terrible. This is one thing I have never seen though.

I hate monday night's.

Come save me.

[TaleraRistain]

I'll remember this rule when I get 2 afk dps in my expert. They pay their fair share after all, so I just gotta accept it.

Like completely afk, don't move at all, don't hit anything? Because I've never in playing almost 7 years run into that. One dps, yes, and we kicked them when we saw we weren't getting any activity from them. Even then, either just kick them both and wait for new or kick one and then the tank and healer can leave freely without penalty.

I ask because I also see people accused of being afk who are acting, but they're not up to someone's personal opinion of activity or dps numbers or whatever. That's not afk.

But yes, actual afk situations we do have measures. Running with what you get in DF doesn't mean staying hostage in a group where some members just aren't participating at all. It means the group makes the necessary adjustments to work with the level of experience or gear or ability that the party has as a whole, instead of having a tunnel vision idea of only one way things can go and trying to force that to the detriment of the party.

[Tommara]

Prime GCBTW examples in the replies

Just grab the aggro and move on, don't waste people's time. Your job in dungeons isn't necessarily to pull it's to grab and hold the aggro.

I disagree, and only play dps because of this now in FF14, whereas in old school MMO's (like Everquest), my preference was to play as healer.

The tank's job is to pull what they are comfortable with pulling (Edited note: although as an EQ ranger, it was my job to pull because I was fast, could slow the mobs, and most importantly, was expendable).

I get that the Duty Finder rewards in FF14 are such that max level dps find the need to get it over with as fast as possible and they don't get instant queues, like tanks and healers do.

That doesn't change the fact that there are new tanks and healers who are trying to learn the dungeon.

I'm a returning player who doesn't remember the dungeons that I learned years ago, which are so many I couldn't possibly watch all the videos I qualified for before, without forgetting the first one I watched long before the last one I watched. So I joined a Duty Finder regardless with my baby bard while reading this thread.

The group I ended up with was so much far more advanced than me, that all I could do was cast run buffs and songs.

I ended up with three commendations.

I pity the newbie/returning tanks and healers trying to keep up with such a group.

Although if you don't need them to do the content, more power to ya.

As long as you don't whine if they fail because you pulled more than the tank and healer could handle and never forget that as dps, you're expendable.

[ZedxKayn]

I disagree, and only play dps because of this now in FF14, whereas in old school MMO's (like Everquest), my preference was to play as healer.

The tank's job is to pull what they are comfortable with pulling (Edited note: although as an EQ ranger, it was my job to pull because I was fast, could slow the mobs, and was expendable).

I get that the Duty Finder rewards in FF14 are such that max level dps find the need to get it over with as fast as possible and they don't get instant queues, like tanks and healers do.

That doesn't change the fact that there are new tanks and healers who are trying to learn the dungeon.

I'm a returning player who doesn't remember the dungeons that I learned years ago, which are so many I couldn't possibly watch all the videos I qualified for before, without forgetting the first one I watched long before the last one I watched. So I joined a Duty Finder regardless with my baby bard while reading this thread.

The group I ended up with was so much far more advanced than me, that all I could do was cast run buffs and songs.

I ended up with three commendations.

I pity the newbie/returning tanks and healers trying to keep up with such a group.

Although if you don't need them to do the content, more power to ya.

As long as you don't whine if they fail.

There is nothing to learn about dungeons after ARR, it's literally all the same 2~3 packs, boss, repeat 2 more times, with a different coat of paint. You know one, you know them all.

While I think that it's the pace should be dictated by how competent everyone in the party is (and honestly the closer you are to 80, the less excuse there is to not be wall to wall), the healer should have much more of a say than the tank. Because the tank HP isn't the tank's problem, it's the healer's.

Also I'm not sure if you read the whole thread, but it's been explained times and times over why for the tank to just stop when someone runs ahead of them and let them die, and even potentially cause a wipe over something so minor does infinitely more harm to the run than just shrugging it off and grabbing the aggro like they're expected to do.

[LianaThorne]

There is nothing to learn about dungeons after ARR, it's literally all the same 2~3 packs, boss, repeat 2 more times, with a different coat of paint. You know one, you know them all.

Just gonna be that person and say that it's not up to you or anyone to decide what someone will get out of any particular dungeon or activity in general on their first run through of it. Yes dungeons in a blanket sense all work in the same fashion (run down hall, kill things, kill boss, repeat) but boss mechs and other aspects may be different (on the rare occasion having someone stop the party to ask questions about why they died in the last boss) and I also have run with a handful of people in DF who enjoy stopping to read the lore scattered in places. It's kind of really up to the person themselves what they get out of it.

[ZedxKayn]

Just gonna be that person and say that it's not up to you or anyone to decide what someone will get out of any particular dungeon or activity in general on their first run through of it. Yes dungeons in a blanket sense all work in the same fashion (run down hall, kill things, kill boss, repeat) but boss mechs and other aspects may be different (on the rare occasion having someone stop the party to ask questions about why they died in the last boss) and I also have run with a handful of people in DF who enjoy stopping to read the lore scattered in places. It's kind of really up to the person themselves what they get out of it.

Bosses aren't trash mob pulls though. Trash mobs are always the same thing, there is no mechanics. The topic is specifically about trash mob pulls. And if a tank knows how to mitigate for a pull, they know how to mitigate for all of them, there is literally nothing to learn there. And past that point there is no reason for the tank to single pull or let someone who, God forbid, was faster than them, die for outrunning them.

[Tommara]

There is nothing to learn about dungeons after ARR, it's literally all the same 2~3 packs, boss, repeat 2 more times, with a different coat of paint. You know one, you know them all.

While I think that it's the pace should be dictated by how competent everyone in the party is (and honestly the closer you are to 80, the less excuse there is to not be wall to wall), the healer should have much more of a say than the tank. Because the tank HP isn't the tank's problem, it's the healer's.

Also I'm not sure if you read the whole thread, but it's been explained times and times over why for the tank to just stop when someone runs ahead of them and let them die, and even potentially cause a wipe over something so minor does infinitely more harm to the run than just shrugging it off and grabbing the aggro like they're expected to do.

No, I will never, ever be that dps who causes a wipe because I expected the tank and healer to bail me out. End of Story, period.

Why, EXACTLY, should I do that? Other than agreed upon sacrificial lamb, which I get, and was perfectly willing to do when it actually hurt me, as it it did in Everquest (you lost exp when dying, and possibly all of your gear, if your group could not help you recover it).

Edited Note: and what exactly is the cost of letting the tank or healer make those calls, instead of dps? Other than the time dps spend waiting in queues.

[ZedxKayn]

No, I will never, ever be that dps who causes a wipe because I expected the tank and healer to bail me out. End of Story, period.

Why, EXACTLY, should I do that? Other than agreed upon sacrificial lamb, which I get, and was perfectly willing to do when it actually hurt me, as it it did in Everquest (you lost exp when dying, and possibly all of your gear, if your group could not help you recover it).

Edited Note: and what exactly is the cost of letting the tank or healer making those calls, instead of dps? Other than the time dps spend waiting in queues.

If the tank refuses to grab aggro from someone and a wipe happens because of it, the wipe will be on the tank, not whoever pulled.
If the tank grabs aggro, and everyone does their job, but a wipe still happens, only then will it be on whoever pulled.

Since you don't wanna read the whole thread:

A DPS pulling will be beneficial for the speed of the run. Damage starts going out sooner = mobs will die sooner = run will be faster.
Additionally a healer or DPS taking damage, as long as the tank grabs the aggro, will actually be nothing more than extra mitigation for the tank, their health bars can be perceived as a shield (that, at least, shouldn't be broken).
It means less damage on the tank the healer will have to heal, since it's pointless for the healer to heal themselves or a DPS during a pull that isn't taking free damage, and therefore less straining on everyone's resources, and more GCDs for the healer to spend on DPSing. And an extra arm's length, that ranged DPS with aggro could provide, on top of their own health bar, is a good chunk of mitigation.

Though the "you pull you tank" players usually lose their mind when a DPS or the healer just happens to be ahead of them and hit a pack they we're intending to hit anyways a GCD or two before that.
And apparently, managing your sprint better than the tank is punishable by death penalty to them.

I don't think that asking for the tank grab aggro, considering that they are, you know, the tank, and that hitting one or two AOEs is enough to get aggro, is an absurd request, regardless of the situation.