DPS who pull mobs

[ZedxKayn]

I disagree, and only play dps because of this now in FF14, whereas in old school MMO's (like Everquest), my preference was to play as healer.

The tank's job is to pull what they are comfortable with pulling (Edited note: although as an EQ ranger, it was my job to pull because I was fast, could slow the mobs, and was expendable).

I get that the Duty Finder rewards in FF14 are such that max level dps find the need to get it over with as fast as possible and they don't get instant queues, like tanks and healers do.

That doesn't change the fact that there are new tanks and healers who are trying to learn the dungeon.

I'm a returning player who doesn't remember the dungeons that I learned years ago, which are so many I couldn't possibly watch all the videos I qualified for before, without forgetting the first one I watched long before the last one I watched. So I joined a Duty Finder regardless with my baby bard while reading this thread.

The group I ended up with was so much far more advanced than me, that all I could do was cast run buffs and songs.

I ended up with three commendations.

I pity the newbie/returning tanks and healers trying to keep up with such a group.

Although if you don't need them to do the content, more power to ya.

As long as you don't whine if they fail.

There is nothing to learn about dungeons after ARR, it's literally all the same 2~3 packs, boss, repeat 2 more times, with a different coat of paint. You know one, you know them all.

While I think that it's the pace should be dictated by how competent everyone in the party is (and honestly the closer you are to 80, the less excuse there is to not be wall to wall), the healer should have much more of a say than the tank. Because the tank HP isn't the tank's problem, it's the healer's.

Also I'm not sure if you read the whole thread, but it's been explained times and times over why for the tank to just stop when someone runs ahead of them and let them die, and even potentially cause a wipe over something so minor does infinitely more harm to the run than just shrugging it off and grabbing the aggro like they're expected to do.

[Tommara]

There is nothing to learn about dungeons after ARR, it's literally all the same 2~3 packs, boss, repeat 2 more times, with a different coat of paint. You know one, you know them all.

While I think that it's the pace should be dictated by how competent everyone in the party is (and honestly the closer you are to 80, the less excuse there is to not be wall to wall), the healer should have much more of a say than the tank. Because the tank HP isn't the tank's problem, it's the healer's.

Also I'm not sure if you read the whole thread, but it's been explained times and times over why for the tank to just stop when someone runs ahead of them and let them die, and even potentially cause a wipe over something so minor does infinitely more harm to the run than just shrugging it off and grabbing the aggro like they're expected to do.

No, I will never, ever be that dps who causes a wipe because I expected the tank and healer to bail me out. End of Story, period.

Why, EXACTLY, should I do that? Other than agreed upon sacrificial lamb, which I get, and was perfectly willing to do when it actually hurt me, as it it did in Everquest (you lost exp when dying, and possibly all of your gear, if your group could not help you recover it).

Edited Note: and what exactly is the cost of letting the tank or healer make those calls, instead of dps? Other than the time dps spend waiting in queues.

[ZedxKayn]

No, I will never, ever be that dps who causes a wipe because I expected the tank and healer to bail me out. End of Story, period.

Why, EXACTLY, should I do that? Other than agreed upon sacrificial lamb, which I get, and was perfectly willing to do when it actually hurt me, as it it did in Everquest (you lost exp when dying, and possibly all of your gear, if your group could not help you recover it).

Edited Note: and what exactly is the cost of letting the tank or healer making those calls, instead of dps? Other than the time dps spend waiting in queues.

If the tank refuses to grab aggro from someone and a wipe happens because of it, the wipe will be on the tank, not whoever pulled.
If the tank grabs aggro, and everyone does their job, but a wipe still happens, only then will it be on whoever pulled.

Since you don't wanna read the whole thread:

A DPS pulling will be beneficial for the speed of the run. Damage starts going out sooner = mobs will die sooner = run will be faster.
Additionally a healer or DPS taking damage, as long as the tank grabs the aggro, will actually be nothing more than extra mitigation for the tank, their health bars can be perceived as a shield (that, at least, shouldn't be broken).
It means less damage on the tank the healer will have to heal, since it's pointless for the healer to heal themselves or a DPS during a pull that isn't taking free damage, and therefore less straining on everyone's resources, and more GCDs for the healer to spend on DPSing. And an extra arm's length, that ranged DPS with aggro could provide, on top of their own health bar, is a good chunk of mitigation.

Though the "you pull you tank" players usually lose their mind when a DPS or the healer just happens to be ahead of them and hit a pack they we're intending to hit anyways a GCD or two before that.
And apparently, managing your sprint better than the tank is punishable by death penalty to them.

I don't think that asking for the tank grab aggro, considering that they are, you know, the tank, and that hitting one or two AOEs is enough to get aggro, is an absurd request, regardless of the situation.

[Tommara]

If the tank refuses to grab aggro from someone and a wipe happens because of it, the wipe will be on the tank, not whoever pulled.
If the tank grabs aggro, and everyone does their job, but a wipe still happens, only then will it be on whoever pulled.

Since you don't wanna read the whole thread:

A DPS pulling will be beneficial for the speed of the run. Damage starts going out sooner = mobs will die sooner = run will be faster.
Additionally a healer or DPS taking damage, as long as the tank grabs the aggro, will actually be nothing more than extra mitigation for the tank, their health bars can be perceived as a shield (that, at least, shouldn't be broken).
It means less damage on the tank the healer will have to heal, since it's pointless for the healer to heal themselves or a DPS during a pull that isn't taking free damage, and therefore less straining on everyone's resources, and more GCDs for the healer to spend on DPSing. And an extra arm's length, that ranged DPS with aggro could provide, on top of their own health bar, is a good chunk of mitigation.

Though the "you pull you tank" players usually lose their mind when a DPS or the healer just happens to be ahead of them and hit a pack they we're intending to hit anyways a GCD or two before that.
And apparently, managing your sprint better than the tank is punishable by death penalty to them.

I don't think that asking for the tank grab aggro, considering that they are, you know, the tank, and that hitting one or two AOEs is enough to get aggro, is an absurd request, regardless of the situation.

As I've said many times before, I don't care about speed of the runs.