Positionals

[ssunny2008]

Since melee also have to deal with not being able to hit the boss, how about we throw positionals onto the BLM as well? What people seem to not be getting is that positionals are on top all the other things from more complex rotations to mechanics that just make it so that you simply cannot hit the boss.

I can just repeat, what i wrote in the other thread. Melee classes have the biggest DPS output overall and it´s definately calculated, that you have to disengage here and there. Nothing is wrong with the class balancing if you compare Melees and Caster. Both have their tools to play around nearly any mechanic to hold 99-100% uptime. It´s up to you to find a way / the perfect timing.
And i don´t really understand your 2nd sentence. First positionals are meaningless etc..., now they´re on the top of all other things from more complexity? Sry if i understand something wrong, i´m not native english, but that seems a bit contradictory.
And just an example:

E11s active DPS on my MNK: 82,94% / on my static BLM from my main char, who has ~ the same skill level: 82,11%
E9s, which is really MNK unfriendly: Both 99,62 in the best tries

So yeah...

Hell, DRG has an ability that requires you to hit 2 positionals to even activate it.

Since when does DRG has positionals to activate something? Is there anything I miss? I´m pretty sure you get your 40 potency on positionals and that´s it, which means 200 potency loss each 10 key rotation if you play them all wrong. Your Blood of the Dragon timer will get 10s on top anyway and the special skills are activated with the 2nd use of Mirage Dive.

[Nothv13]

Since when does DRG has positionals to activate something? Is there anything I miss? I´m pretty sure you get your 40 potency on positionals and that´s it, which means 200 potency loss each 10 key rotation if you play them all wrong. Your Blood of the Dragon timer will get 10s on top anyway and the special skills are activated with the 2nd use of Mirage Dive.

Raiden thrust. DRG get a skill that is just a small potency upgrade that requires you to hit two positionals before it activates. Waste of a level up skill and should have simply been baked into True thrust if pressent at all.

[ssunny2008]

Raiden thrust. DRG get a skill that is just a small potency upgrade that requires you to hit two positionals before it activates. Waste of a level up skill and should have simply been baked into True thrust if pressent at all.

Oh yeah, forget this passiv. I thought you mean a real skill.

It´s just 40 potency too, which means you would lose 240 in the first and 280 in every following rotations. It´s not even near the dmg buff you gain or lose from e.g. bootshine. Funfact, you don´t even have to play both positionals, only the second one.

[Nothv13]

Oh yeah, forget this passiv. I thought you mean a real skill.

It´s just 40 potency too, which means you would lose 240 in the first and 280 in every following rotations. It´s not even near the dmg buff you gain or lose from e.g. bootshine. Funfact, you don´t even have to play both positionals, only the second one.

Having something like this so forgettable is pretty bad. If they want positionals then they should keep them meaningful, if they are forgettable then they lose meaning and purpose other than adding unneeded complexity.

[ssunny2008]

Having something like this so forgettable is pretty bad. If they want positionals then they should keep them meaningful, if they are forgettable then they lose meaning and purpose other than adding unneeded complexity.

Well for my bad i don´t play DRG very often. MNK is way more fun and not so static. Not to mention that having 2 jumps as "dmg only" skills instead of real gapclosers is bad.
As i said, DRG and NIN? Get ride of them and work more with the rest of the kit based on their background. But SAM and MNK? Never... Both kits are fine as they are. MNK just needs a replace for the lost GL and SAM a little nerf.

[Nothv13]

Well for my bad i don´t play DRG very often. MNK is way more fun and not so static. Not to mention that having 2 jumps as "dmg only" skills instead of real gapclosers is bad.
As i said, DRG and NIN? Get ride of them and work more with the rest of the kit based on their background. But SAM and MNK? Never... Both kits are fine as they are. MNK just needs a replace for the lost GL and SAM a little nerf.

Even on Sam they are unmeaningful coming out to less than a percent on your dps over a fight

[ssunny2008]

Even on Sam they are unmeaningful coming out to less than a percent on your dps over a fight

Well... if you spam it all in Shinten it should be somewhere from 3-4% based on your skillspeed. But that´s not even the point. It gives you the advantage to use all your kenki stuff way more. And playing positionals properly and using all of your tools, makes a huge difference and is defines definately the gap between a good and a bad / midcore player.

I don´t know how often i read "unmeaningful" and similar stuff yet. What is meaningful then? Give some examples? Give a real idea for a rework which doesn´t sound like action mmorpg?! I couldn´t even say, if you would be fine if those potencies on positionals would be doubled or needed for any combo, whatever. It sounds more like you want to get ride of them with the only argument "They have no meaning, so they´re annoying.", even if you´ve said in one sentence, you wouldn´t mind "more meaningful positionals".
In the next step it´s on top of complexity and you care for any damage loss, any uptime loss, several disengages, whatever... So how can they be unmeaningful, when you straight up lose damage, if you don´t play them?

I really don´t get it... either you´ve no real plan, you don´t know what you actually want or yes, you might be a prewriter with a 2nd account who tries to push this thread with another strategy.

From all what i read, i would clearly say in the end, melee isn´t for you. All what makes melees actual melees, fun to play and somehow challenging, seems to be a no-go for you and the contradiction in your posts is real. It doesn´t even matter if something has 10 potency or 100 in the end, when it´s fun to play and shows that obvious difference between "good or bad". It gives space to improve yourself.
But if you really want a class who can do whatever they want, at any time, without any damage loss, you should play phys. range. But beware, you could get bad RNG proccs or miss some in time due to doubleproccs / unlucky timings.

Don´t get me wrong, way more complexity and pressure on the player with different class-mechanics and way more important positionals would be a great thing where the player would finally NEEDS to improve, but i really don´t get what your point is in the end. It seems like everything but staying at the boss and playing 123 without any break is annoying for you and at this point i see no chance to make you somehow happy with melee classes without destroying the whole game and balance design. (It would be boring af too so...)