Positionals

[RinaB]

Ok so before I get started I main a tank and have been leveling a dragoon. Ff14 is based around dodging aoes, boss position aoes, avoiding eye blasts etc etc its all aoes. Positionals are incredibly awkward and bad when the mechanics are based around avoidance. Let's not kid ourselves and start talking about how "well the tank needs to do xyz and position xyz" when 95% of players do not run with statics and only guild members and even then a lot of aoes in this game spawn at random spots around the boss. Take the second boss in dohn mheg for example. As a DRG you have no choice but to eat the lower potency of your abilities regardless of where the tank has him facing because of the tethers. Its a really bad idea for melee to have positionals in a game that clearly doesn't support it. As a caster I can slam everyone and everything from any angle but melee I have to hike around and pick sides? Yes as a tank main and with tank changes in 5.0 the vast majority are terrible and can't even use mitigators let alone position the boss for melee so thats also a huge problem. In big pulls tanks need to jump around aoeing and avoiding aoes so what does that do for melee? Ruins your dps contribution and that effects your whole group. Please get rid of positionals, theyre garbage.

[ItMe]

Would you be happier if True North was expanded/enhanced?
Or do you feel they are wholly without merit?

[Dzian]

Would you be happier if True North was expanded/enhanced?
Or do you feel they are wholly without merit?

True north and positionals should be scrapped entirely.

the devs consistantly dumb down and simplify jobs in ways that make them even more dull and boring yet they insist on keeping te stupid positionals system that is boring and pointless they add nothing to gameplay.

If a samurai completely ignores positionals and just stays in one spot they'll lose a whole 5 kenki every 8 gcds or such.which equates to 20% of a 320 potency shinten (62 potency) over 8 gcds 18 seconds (give or take) 62 / 18 =3.444 potency per second which if i remember correctly is less than 0.5% of your average damage. the same goes for ninjas and dragoons. if a ninja just stays behind a boss totally ignores positionals they lose a whole 60 potency once every 30 or so seconds when they use armor crush 2 potency per second..

its not a fun or rewarding mechanic at all and should just be scrapped.

even monks with 2 charges of true north and riddle of earth can spend a ton of time completely ignoreing positionals.

they honestly add nothing noticable or even rewarding to gameplay. when they contribute for less than 0.5% of your damage.

[Satarn]

they honestly add nothing noticable or even rewarding to gameplay. when they contribute for less than 0.5% of your damage.

If they're so insignificant then you should have nothing to complain about in regard to their existence - just ignore them and let people who enjoy them do so. Not being a make or break difference in output is good for adding a bit more height to the skill ceiling, while keeping the floor where SE wants it - which is as low as possible.

[ssunny2008]

snip

In case of SAM it´s 10 kenki in one rotation and only 25 kenki are available at each rotation. You couldn´t even make use of Kaiten for Midare and Higabana without them. Then we´ve Shinten as powerful off gcd which gives as pretty decent damage boost since SAM is the only melee without those cd-based off gcd´s. Seigan is even slightly stronger. Gyoten needs 10 kenki aswell and is a really fast escape to hold uptime as long as it´s possible.
This means, those 10 kenki each rotation are very important and you´ll lose much more than those 0,5% damage if you ignore them or just play them "by accident" and only going to lose 5 kenki.

MNK relies completely on them, it´s the whole gameplay design... i see no need to argue more about that. It´s all whats left on the class and should NEVER leave it.

NIN / DRG are another thing yes. They could get ride of them on NIN and focus more on stealth or ninjutsus with internal cd, so you can´t just spam raiton or whatever. But backstabbing should be still someway important since you´re a NIN. It could be like a stackable passiv. You´ll get 1% more damage for every skill you use from behind stackable 5 times. If you attack from the side, you´ll lose 1 stack per attack. So you´re actually somehow forced to attack from behind.

DRG is actually the most boring melee in bossfights anyway. The rotation is simple, you use your gapclosers for damage and not to keep uptime. (Sometimes you do even die thx to animation stucks or mechanics like garuda in E6s.) Maintaining dragonheart is even simpler than maintaining old GL. You lost it? Press the button again. The whole kit needs some kind of rework, gapclosers should be gapclosers and not just damage off gcd´s. The kit has a soul, but it´s nothing but pressing buffs in a decent order and some cool skill animations. I wouldn´t care if they get ride of positionals on DRG, but the class needs way more stuff to care about.
On the other hand they could even use the jumps as buffs. One would bring you automatically behind the boss and buff the next 5 skills you do from behind. The 2nd jump would reposition you at the side and ofc the next 5 hits from the side would do increased damage. Those jumps shouldn´t be locked on cd, they should be created behind a ressource with a buffer, so you can adapt with them at certain mechanics without losing damage. Stuff like that would bring a bit more depth to the class, the player could always adapt and you wouldn´t waste your gapcloser on cd. You would be able to adjust as you want for more damage or more uptime. (In case of balancing just bring an internal cd on the buff, so you can´t use "from behind, from behind" all day long.)

[Gruntler]

True north and positionals should be scrapped entirely.

the devs consistantly dumb down and simplify jobs in ways that make them even more dull and boring yet they insist on keeping te stupid positionals system that is boring and pointless they add nothing to gameplay.

If you do hard content, you know that balancing positioning and use of true north for mechanics and positionals for pushing damage is very much a non-trivial part of gameplay, just as managing instant casts/procs is for caster movement to deal with mechanics.

That's adding to gameplay. That adds to depth in this game's combat.

[Marxam]

If you do hard content, you know that balancing positioning and use of true north for mechanics and positionals for pushing damage is very much a non-trivial part of gameplay, just as managing instant casts/procs is for caster movement to deal with mechanics.

That's adding to gameplay. That adds to depth in this game's combat.

This guy gets it. Removing positionals will lead to bad tanking habits and bad dps habits. You only need to go into to CLL and see people spinning the boss around the entire time they are tanking. Positionals are also required to identify front, flank and rear through UI elements which also helps with strategies that involve boss relative. Positionals NEED to stay because it ADDS to the gameplay. We don't need another dumb decision like removing TP but keeping MP because apparently physical players are incapable of managing their resources? or maybe they want to punish casters more harshly when they die by making their MP 0 but I digress.

[IruruCece]

Positionals actually add something to gameplay, otherwise we'd just be sitting in one spot waiting for AoEs to avoid like a group of melee-range black mages. For Dragoons, which don't actually have that many positionals to begin with, you should be able to consistently land them with practice.

[Frizze]

So unless im mistaken, there are no AoEs with positionals. So in big pulls it doesnt matter, because you should be using your AoEs. As for general combat, positionals arent as bad as you seem to think. Ideally you set yourself up at the border where the flank meets the rear position. You can then switch positions with a single step left or right. Need to dodge? If its a targetted ability then the other side of the boss(left versus right) will be out of the way a lot of the time because of how big bosses are. If its a point blank, you need to go out regardless(and if its a donut youre probly already close enough). And unlike a class with a casting time, you can move during the cycling of your GCD so those 2+ seconds will almost always be plenty of time to get where you need to go. You use the example of the plant boss in dohn mheg. What you dont consider is that you only need to be covering your tether when it gets snapshotted at the end of the cast. Doing one quick positional attack before moving to block wont cause this boss to fail.

[Equitable_Remedy]

Please get rid of positionals, theyre garbage.

No. Your request has been denied.