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[MirronTulaxia]

That's quite the leap in logic. For starters, I don't think anybody else said anything about Light or Dark magic for Geomancer. Not every gap needs to be filled simultaneously by exactly one addition.

Second, Light and Dark aren't official elements in terms of damage, and are always treated as Unaspected magic damage. Aesthetically however, WHM, RDM, and BLM already dip into them - Holy (and Verholy by extension), Glare, Dia, and the Afflatus line for Light, and Foul and Xenoglossy for Dark (utilizing Voidsent cast effects). When Thaumaturge specialized in Umbral and Astral damage in 1.0, Bio was considered the Umbral counterpart to Dia, so you could argue SCH and SMN dip into Dark with it and their Drain spells; this also fits with Broil utilizing the same Dark effects used by Ascians, DRK... or any enemy who casts "Dark".

We also have Wind and Earth available through RDM and SMN. Water's really the only untapped elemental magic - not to say we can't have a caster that dips into other elements as well.

As far as GEO goes, I don't think I've heard anyone propose it use more that Water, Wind, Earth, and maybe Fire.



Oddly picky about your representation.



That's like comparing the RDM we received to the one instance of Alisaie using an aetherial sword in HW.

Bearing in mind "the one Geomancer we saw", if you mean Kyokuho, only had 3 spells. I would highly doubt the devs instilled one NPC with the entirety of their design philosophy for a classic job multiple expansions before hypothetical implementation; all he highlights is that Geomancer is established within the lore, giving it a backdoor for entry as a job should the devs so desire.

1a. I didn't say anyone said Light/Dark were tied to Geomancer, but they are still distinctly lacking in terms of offensive representation. If people are going to put forward that Water needs representation then so too do Light and Dark. At which point we're basically just saying "anything Black Mage doesn't use could show up" which is hardly a meaningful distinction.
1b. Whether they are treated as elements in terms of damage (which, outside of Blue Mage, is a meaningless distinction anyways) they are acknowledged as being present. They get their own distinct color of aether, which is the same as wind/earth/water/the rest of them, at which point there isn't really any argument for them not being lumped in as a category.
1c. You can see the aether used by Summoners, it's unaspected, not dark. And if two spells is enough to qualify an element as represented then Red Mage already has that with Wind. So you're really only defeating your own argument about these elements and their representation if two is enough to qualify.
1d. Ah, you're arguing something a bit different then. If you're simply arguing Water is lacking in representation that's not the same as the "we need to represent these three elements" stance others are pointing out. But as I said, Water clearly isn't something they're all that concerned about representing. They could easily have given it to Red Mage after all.
1e. You definitely misunderstand what I proposed if that's what you read. It wasn't "Geomancer should have all of these" but "all of these elements are 'missing', and Geomancer isn't fixing all of them".

2. Not sure I follow. You'd have to elaborate a bit. My best guess is you mean something like "those should count as representation" when, to me, I'm not really counting something as representation of elemental aspects unless it's on the scale of Black Mage Fire/Ice. Even their Thunder is a bit weak for my tastes.

3a. It's pointing out that they had a chance to show a Water spell for offense and chose not to. If we're really to take it as just limitations then why did they specifically change it from the default Wind aether used for healing spells from Scholar/White Mage? Actually, double checking, it looks like Astro does Water for healing, so it's quite possible that would be why. Though as it's supposedly based on Conjurer that still means they chose specifically to add Water as a healing spell as opposed to damage. The broad point here is that we've seen Geomancer, and it only used Water aether for healing, it's entirely probable that's what it'll do as a proper job.

3b. Sure? They still chose those three spells for a reason presumably, this game likes to make little hidden easter eggs. As it stands currently we know they didn't simply take spells from one job and rename them, they took spells from multiple jobs or made up spells entirely. Instead of taking the easy way out they made it more difficult. Which means, again presumably, there is a reason. What I'm doing is proposing a reason for it.

[Archwizard]

Mirron, I'm just going to ask you this once.
Please read a post to its conclusion before replying. Don't hit "reply" and then start reading and writing bullets as you go. Don't do the "stream of consciousness" when you're going to contradict yourself later or realize you're not arguing for what you thought you were. It's hard to reply to you, because the "spur of the moment" reply style you have makes you purely reactive and contrarian, and makes it hard to tell what you mean to argue for.
The way you write is no different from if you wanted to interrupt someone to go on a pedantic tangent, except that their post is already written and their point has already been made.
There is a holistic argument being made for consideration, but you only examine each passage individually. It makes you look the fool.

I didn't say anyone said Light/Dark were tied to Geomancer, but they are still distinctly lacking in terms of offensive representation. If people are going to put forward that Water needs representation then so too do Light and Dark.

Again, we already have several classes who specialize in Light and Dark, respectively. PLD and WHM for Light, DRK for Dark, and assorted other jobs who touch on it.
Just because they're not Caster DPS jobs doesn't make the representation any less present in the game as a whole. Meanwhile, thanks to trimming, there is only one Water-based attack available across all jobs: NIN's Suiton.

And if two spells is enough to qualify an element as represented then Red Mage already has that with Wind. So you're really only defeating your own argument about these elements and their representation if two is enough to qualify.

What "argument" is that defeating? I literally said that Wind/Earth have representation through RDM and SMN, you're literally making the same point I did. I'm not in some fictitious boat saying they're underrepresented elements just because BLM isn't using them.
Water is underrepresented, sure, and if the devs see fit to build the next caster around it and those other elements then I have no objection, as I'm sure most of us can agree.
I don't think the devs take "What elements haven't we used" in itself as a major consideration when choosing jobs to design (since mechanically, all magic is Magic Damage regardless of element, unless the job itself has some distinction like AF/UI), but I do think that GEO is an excellent job choice to add to the Caster roster (partly due to lack of other realistic options; partly due to its unique aesthetics, rich lore, and support potential), and it just happens to use several of the elements BLM avoids, including potential for offensive Water magic.

You definitely misunderstand what I proposed if that's what you read. It wasn't "Geomancer should have all of these" but "all of these elements are 'missing', and Geomancer isn't fixing all of them".

Which is a non-sequitur argument to make in the first place; once again, you're being too broad with your counterpoint. Your logic could be applied exactly the same way to any future job that doesn't cover at least those 5 elements, substituting out the word "Geomancer" for whatever name, and could be used in an attempt to block literally any future addition to the caster lineup.

Look, I get that you're trying to say "they're not going to add a job just because it has <X> missing magic type."
But that's not what anyone is proposing.
OP is just asking to see Water represented by a future addition to the roster; a harmless request made from hype, not some arbitrary barrier to entry for other jobs or a request to stop production on anything that doesn't have it.
GEO could, just by sheer coincidence, fit exactly the criteria OP is asking for... but that's not the sole basis to include GEO or the only reason GEO's requested.

I'm not really counting something as representation of elemental aspects unless it's on the scale of Black Mage Fire/Ice. Even their Thunder is a bit weak for my tastes.

Part of the problem with that line of thinking about the "depth" of representation, is that any caster job would essentially have to be BLM with their spells reskinned to match new elements in order to qualify.
Bearing in mind that the way BLM is built up, the level of "depth" Fire and Ice magic get comes from being the majority of the job's arsenal; the more elements you add to a job with a fixed number of Spell/Ability/Trait slots for advancement, the more diluted each element will inevitably become within their arsenal, as we see with RDM and NIN. BLM and SMN each have distinct "purposes" for each element at their disposal, yet you cherrypick BLM because it has 4-6 spells of a given element (even when more of them fall into disuse over time or are overwritten by new additions) where SMN has each element consolidated in a pet.

The broad point here is that we've seen Geomancer, and it only used Water aether for healing, it's entirely probable that's what it'll do as a proper job.

Again, Kyokuho did. He's also not the only GEO in the game, with the Sai Taisui of Swallow's Compass and Heaven on High using water exclusively for damage.

They still chose those three spells for a reason presumably,

They chose them because an NPC you're only going to have support you for one questline to supplement your crap damage output (and one whose actions you probably won't be watching much anyway) isn't going to need a particular depth to their arsenal and is just going to use a basic script to attack anyway, and because Kyokuho was quickly thrown together from scraps they recycled from CNJ (including the wand casting animations they already had in place, which worked with his unique 'rattle'). Anything more would have been unnecessary effort, particularly when coding the NPC's attack behavior.
This is the same way that Alisaie and Thancred used GLA attacks before RDM and ROG were implemented, or how the Trusts for Ryne, Alphinaud and Y'shtola are billed as unique jobs but are essentially ROG, SCH and BLM with some extra spells. Hell, it's the same reason we see Onmyoji NPCs casting THM spells even when Yoshi-P has gone on record to say that was a job previously in development. It's just the devs recycling data and making an easy script for NPC actions, and doesn't act as a restriction on or indicator of how a full job addition would play. You cannot base a potential job off how an NPC ally is coded; hell, you can't even base it purely off how an enemy is coded, which requires a great deal of expansion even when they have unique skills.

Could they give GEO a water-based heal? Sure, sorta like how RDM gets Vercure, SMN has a healing aura with Phoenix up, or SMN and BLM get personal barriers. I'm still of the mindset that BLM should get Drain back for some personal survivability while questing, and maybe emphasize Titan-Egi's barrier ability for SMN for the same reason.
Does that have to be the only Water spell GEO has, prevent GEO from learning Water magic to attack, or denote GEO to become a Healer job? God no.