Next Jobs

[MirronTulaxia]

I mean, technically we still have someone using Wind and Earth (White Mage hasn't lost any Water spells so it's still the same amount) in Red Mage. We also have Summoner using Earth and Wind as well. So it's really Water, but Water has been at the same dearth of activity since 2.0 started, it's unusual but again clearly not something they're in any rush to change.

So long story short there is a Water gap, but as noticeable as it may be they don't seem to really be hurrying to fill it. Does this mean we might get Geomancer? Certainly. But the one Geomancer we saw didn't even use offensive based Water magic, and if we aren't limiting things to offensive water magic then there are no doubt other spells that use water aether for non-offensive purposes.

You're also throwing around tautology a lot Vendal without a firm grasp of what it means or what I'm arguing, you should probably do a better job of reading before trying to make a claim that's false. None of what I'm arguing is a tautology.

[Archwizard]

So then you're proposing that we get dedicated Water/Wind/Earth/Light/Dark offensive magic all from Geomancer?

That's quite the leap in logic. For starters, I don't think anybody else said anything about Light or Dark magic for Geomancer. Not every gap needs to be filled simultaneously by exactly one addition.

Second, Light and Dark aren't official elements in terms of damage, and are always treated as Unaspected magic damage. Aesthetically however, WHM, RDM, and BLM already dip into them - Holy (and Verholy by extension), Glare, Dia, and the Afflatus line for Light, and Foul and Xenoglossy for Dark (utilizing Voidsent cast effects). When Thaumaturge specialized in Umbral and Astral damage in 1.0, Bio was considered the Umbral counterpart to Dia, so you could argue SCH and SMN dip into Dark with it and their Drain spells; this also fits with Broil utilizing the same Dark effects used by Ascians, DRK... or any enemy who casts "Dark".

We also have Wind and Earth available through RDM and SMN. Water's really the only untapped elemental magic - not to say we can't have a caster that dips into other elements as well.

As far as GEO goes, I don't think I've heard anyone propose it use more that Water, Wind, Earth, and maybe Fire.

I'm more arguing that because you see theoretical gaps that the developer team does not really. So far your argument for it is.. really weak. Red Mage barely uses Earth, and uses less Wind spells than White Mage did in Stormblood.

Oddly picky about your representation.

But the one Geomancer we saw didn't even use offensive based Water magic, and if we aren't limiting things to offensive water magic then there are no doubt other spells that use water aether for non-offensive purposes.

That's like comparing the RDM we received to the one instance of Alisaie using an aetherial sword in HW.

Bearing in mind "the one Geomancer we saw", if you mean Kyokuho, only had 3 spells. I would highly doubt the devs instilled one NPC with the entirety of their design philosophy for a classic job multiple expansions before hypothetical implementation; all he highlights is that Geomancer is established within the lore, giving it a backdoor for entry as a job should the devs so desire.

[BasicBlake]

With an Addition or Geomancer as a Healer, and Beastmaster as a Ranged DPS, they both don’t really need to add new jobs. We know Geomancer is in high demand, and we know a healer is coming next. We know Ranged DPS has only 3 jobs compared to Melee and Caster having 4 (I count Blue Mage as both Caster and All-Rounder.). And we know that Beastmaster is a traditional FF job that is high in demand as well. Beastmaster makes so much sense to give a whip and make it a ranged attacker- which makes even more sense because whips in FF attack with full power from the back row.. They could even invert it to Ninja and have it scale with Strength instead of Dexterity.

After that, they’ve basically given us every reasonable traditional jobs, and if they wanted to add more they’re free to think more outside the box.

Personally, after Geomancer and Beastmaster, I really don’t care to see any more jobs added to this game.

With Yoshi P stating how Bst would make a good limited job, I wouldn't really put all my eggs in that basket just yet, especially with how we just got a physical ranged this expansion.

A healer and a caster will be coming.

[Sylvain]

With Yoshi P stating how Bst would make a good limited job, I wouldn't really put all my eggs in that basket just yet, especially with how we just got a physical ranged this expansion.

A healer and a caster will be coming.

I was thinking the same. Im also more leaning toward the alchemist as a new healer. Geomancer could fill any role really (although I'd rather them not make it a dps... I feel like there's enough elemental magic in that category

But at this point it's not a matter of what but when.

[Seraphor]

But the one Geomancer we saw didn't even use offensive based Water magic, and if we aren't limiting things to offensive water magic then there are no doubt other spells that use water aether for non-offensive purposes.

You're forgetting the Four Lords arc with the Swallows Compass and Sai Taisui. Adding in the lore about Ganen, the founder of Geomancy.
An entire dungeon based around Geomancy, offensive Geomancy to boot.
The AST quest is a footnote compared to all that.

[VictorTheed]

I want beast master as the next dps job, I'd even take it as a tank.

[AceofRains]

With Yoshi P stating how Bst would make a good limited job, I wouldn't really put all my eggs in that basket just yet, especially with how we just got a physical ranged this expansion.

A healer and a caster will be coming.

Nah I’m gonna bet on it. Very few people actually respond well to the concept of limited jobs, and those of us who actually play Blue Mage more than just to 60 know that it’s not the most broken concept. A limited job is a design choice to test something that they might have thought would not work out, but at this point, Blue Mage is something that should certainly be a part of normal gameplay. Learning spells is just more natural when they can pick them up as they level in the duty finder, and it’s been beyond proven that it is not the solo content that it was intended to be because it can’t do a damn thing without getting its hand held by a party. Imagine being a healer and you get 1 raise every 300 seconds while red mage can chain raise. Limited is not working. Beastmaster does not have the same testing issues that Blue Mage does- not even close. Yoshi said it might be a limited job like a year ago when this community didn’t completely realize what a terrible idea it was. With many people desiring a Ranger class because Bard doesn’t fulfill that fantasy for them, it’s only logical to have Beastmaster fill a kind of “hunter/tamer” role.

[MirronTulaxia]

That's quite the leap in logic. For starters, I don't think anybody else said anything about Light or Dark magic for Geomancer. Not every gap needs to be filled simultaneously by exactly one addition.

Second, Light and Dark aren't official elements in terms of damage, and are always treated as Unaspected magic damage. Aesthetically however, WHM, RDM, and BLM already dip into them - Holy (and Verholy by extension), Glare, Dia, and the Afflatus line for Light, and Foul and Xenoglossy for Dark (utilizing Voidsent cast effects). When Thaumaturge specialized in Umbral and Astral damage in 1.0, Bio was considered the Umbral counterpart to Dia, so you could argue SCH and SMN dip into Dark with it and their Drain spells; this also fits with Broil utilizing the same Dark effects used by Ascians, DRK... or any enemy who casts "Dark".

We also have Wind and Earth available through RDM and SMN. Water's really the only untapped elemental magic - not to say we can't have a caster that dips into other elements as well.

As far as GEO goes, I don't think I've heard anyone propose it use more that Water, Wind, Earth, and maybe Fire.



Oddly picky about your representation.



That's like comparing the RDM we received to the one instance of Alisaie using an aetherial sword in HW.

Bearing in mind "the one Geomancer we saw", if you mean Kyokuho, only had 3 spells. I would highly doubt the devs instilled one NPC with the entirety of their design philosophy for a classic job multiple expansions before hypothetical implementation; all he highlights is that Geomancer is established within the lore, giving it a backdoor for entry as a job should the devs so desire.

1a. I didn't say anyone said Light/Dark were tied to Geomancer, but they are still distinctly lacking in terms of offensive representation. If people are going to put forward that Water needs representation then so too do Light and Dark. At which point we're basically just saying "anything Black Mage doesn't use could show up" which is hardly a meaningful distinction.
1b. Whether they are treated as elements in terms of damage (which, outside of Blue Mage, is a meaningless distinction anyways) they are acknowledged as being present. They get their own distinct color of aether, which is the same as wind/earth/water/the rest of them, at which point there isn't really any argument for them not being lumped in as a category.
1c. You can see the aether used by Summoners, it's unaspected, not dark. And if two spells is enough to qualify an element as represented then Red Mage already has that with Wind. So you're really only defeating your own argument about these elements and their representation if two is enough to qualify.
1d. Ah, you're arguing something a bit different then. If you're simply arguing Water is lacking in representation that's not the same as the "we need to represent these three elements" stance others are pointing out. But as I said, Water clearly isn't something they're all that concerned about representing. They could easily have given it to Red Mage after all.
1e. You definitely misunderstand what I proposed if that's what you read. It wasn't "Geomancer should have all of these" but "all of these elements are 'missing', and Geomancer isn't fixing all of them".

2. Not sure I follow. You'd have to elaborate a bit. My best guess is you mean something like "those should count as representation" when, to me, I'm not really counting something as representation of elemental aspects unless it's on the scale of Black Mage Fire/Ice. Even their Thunder is a bit weak for my tastes.

3a. It's pointing out that they had a chance to show a Water spell for offense and chose not to. If we're really to take it as just limitations then why did they specifically change it from the default Wind aether used for healing spells from Scholar/White Mage? Actually, double checking, it looks like Astro does Water for healing, so it's quite possible that would be why. Though as it's supposedly based on Conjurer that still means they chose specifically to add Water as a healing spell as opposed to damage. The broad point here is that we've seen Geomancer, and it only used Water aether for healing, it's entirely probable that's what it'll do as a proper job.

3b. Sure? They still chose those three spells for a reason presumably, this game likes to make little hidden easter eggs. As it stands currently we know they didn't simply take spells from one job and rename them, they took spells from multiple jobs or made up spells entirely. Instead of taking the easy way out they made it more difficult. Which means, again presumably, there is a reason. What I'm doing is proposing a reason for it.

[BasicBlake]

I was thinking the same. Im also more leaning toward the alchemist as a new healer. Geomancer could fill any role really (although I'd rather them not make it a dps... I feel like there's enough elemental magic in that category

But at this point it's not a matter of what but when.

Black Mage using too many elements for your taste? Haha

[BasicBlake]

Nah I’m gonna bet on it. Very few people actually respond well to the concept of limited jobs, and those of us who actually play Blue Mage more than just to 60 know that it’s not the most broken concept. A limited job is a design choice to test something that they might have thought would not work out, but at this point, Blue Mage is something that should certainly be a part of normal gameplay. Learning spells is just more natural when they can pick them up as they level in the duty finder, and it’s been beyond proven that it is not the solo content that it was intended to be because it can’t do a damn thing without getting its hand held by a party. Imagine being a healer and you get 1 raise every 300 seconds while red mage can chain raise. Limited is not working. Beastmaster does not have the same testing issues that Blue Mage does- not even close. Yoshi said it might be a limited job like a year ago when this community didn’t completely realize what a terrible idea it was. With many people desiring a Ranger class because Bard doesn’t fulfill that fantasy for them, it’s only logical to have Beastmaster fill a kind of “hunter/tamer” role.

Actually, Blue Mage is working great, from a developer standpoint. Just because you don’t enjoy how it works in this game doesn’t mean it hasn’t done well. Pretty much every person you speak to has leveled BLU to 60, or has at least unlocked it. I actually don’t think you can even find an interview where the FFXIV team has said anything but praise for how the class turned out.

Your dislike is not a universal experience. And while I personally don’t get that hype about the blue mage content, it was by no means a failure. They made side content and almost every player played it, that’s a win for them.