Tanking in FF14 question

[BarretOblivion]

You hit the Enmity management and Stance swapping especially right on the head. Just spent like the last hour looking through threads on tanking and see nothing but tanks. Wanting the old days of go Offensive stance, then expect healers and dps too use ENMITY REDUCING ABILITES whenever their up. So Mr or Mrs. tank could continue to spam their dps abilites and avoid their Defensive stance. Grit,sword oath, Defiance no longer grant damage reduction only enmity generation. So they could just leave it down and lower their enmity generation just like if they were in Offensive stance. As healer I should not have to lax at my job because my tank wants to play dps instead of Tank.

Im sorry to say this but... you are just bad then. Everyone got used to doing it and timing thier hate drops when they are needed (example during burst heals or dps). You never laxed your job in SB, if you did, something was wrong. Either you didn't Lucid, or tanks weren't shirking each other.

[NanaWiloh]

Im sorry to say this but... you are just bad then. Everyone got used to doing it and timing thier hate drops when they are needed (example during burst heals or dps). You never laxed your job in SB, if you did, something was wrong. Either you didn't Lucid, or tanks weren't shirking each other.

It was in 4 mans where it happend, never happened in raids cause of two tanks and two healers. Tanks that want the enmity managment back can have it the day SE locks you into Defensive stance while in a 4 man. You can stance dance in Raids where two tanks are present so the chance that at least one of the two is paying attention to aggro. The old system worked fine in a raid enviroment but was a nightmare in 4 mans.

This is How I would bring it back.

1. Make defensive stances increase the enmity created by enmity generating abilities only.

2. Give tanks 1 more pure enmity generator (Enmity will need to be lowered to ensure both get used.)

3. Make enmity generators OGCD abilities.

4. Remove Enmity generation from tank dps abilities.

Result tanks will have to rotate their pure enmity generators into their dps rotation. Hard part would be balancing so you dont have to hit the generators every time you do your dps rotation. The idea here simple put dps and healers on a tanks skirt tails for Enmity with the tanks having to use enmity generators more often then they do now.

[ReiMakoto]

It was in 4 mans where it happend, never happened in raids cause of two tanks and two healers. Tanks that want the enmity managment back can have it the day SE locks you into Defensive stance while in a 4 man. You can stance dance in Raids where two tanks are present so the chance that at least one of the two is paying attention to aggro. The old system worked fine in a raid enviroment but was a nightmare in 4 mans.

This is How I would bring it back.

1. Make defensive stances increase the enmity created by enmity generating abilities only.

2. Give tanks 1 more pure enmity generator (Enmity will need to be lowered to ensure both get used.)

3. Make enmity generators OGCD abilities.

4. Remove Enmity generation from tank dps abilities.

Result tanks will have to rotate their pure enmity generators into their dps rotation. Hard part would be balancing so you dont have to hit the generators every time you do your dps rotation. The idea here simple put dps and healers on a tanks skirt tails for Enmity with the tanks having to use enmity generators more often then they do now.

If you were losing aggro when stance dancing in 4 man content you were just bad, even in trash pulls my grit was on for maybe 1 unleash then it was dps time and nothing lost aggro. Dungeon bosses were so short 1 aggro combo was enough to hold the boss till it died, or 2 if you had a good dps that for some reason didnt press their free aggro buttons.

Also you emnity idea just sounds incredibly arbitrary, I dont understand whats fun about it.

[NanaWiloh]

If you were losing aggro when stance dancing in 4 man content you were just bad, even in trash pulls my grit was on for maybe 1 unleash then it was dps time and nothing lost aggro. Dungeon bosses were so short 1 aggro combo was enough to hold the boss till it died, or 2 if you had a good dps that for some reason didnt press their free aggro buttons.

Also you emnity idea just sounds incredibly arbitrary, I dont understand whats fun about it.

The idea pushes you too actually maintain threat rather 1 button or one combo and done. Which is funny cause the old system and the new system are the same in that regard instead of one aggro combo its one button aggro now. Only difference No offensive stance and no penatly for using Defensive.

[Maeka]

The idea pushes you too actually maintain threat rather 1 button or one combo and done. Which is funny cause the old system and the new system are the same in that regard instead of one aggro combo its one button aggro now. Only difference No offensive stance and no penatly for using Defensive.

Yeah, gotta love the people who seem to think there was some kind of difference between turning stance on/off and today.

"REMEMBER THEM DAYS WHEN YOU NEEDED GRIT FOR THE FIRST UNLEASH!? I MISS THOSE DAYS!!!!"

......sigh.

Yeah, like turning Grit off after one Unleash was just awesome gameplay or something.

Meanwhile, newbie tanks who left Grit (or whatever stance) on got yelled at, scolded, mocked, etc.

I'm going to repeat that.

It was considered bad play to use your defensive stance as a tank because it did "less DPS". A whole 10% less. Not that tanks were ever anywhere close to the top of the DPS charts, and not like you didn't already have 2 other people there whose job it was to kill junk, and not like that 10% DPS really did that much of a difference in 4man content.

EDIT: And before anybody yells at me about OTs and everybody should do DPS, etc. For tanks and heals, DPS is a tertiary job. In 8-man fights (which I am not talking about here), the OT is a gimp DPS until or unless he is needed, depending on the fight or if the MT dies. Obviously. He should be doing whatever he can to do as much DPS as possible, because there's literally nothing else he can do. But in 4man groups, the tank's first job is to keep mobs on him and his second job should be to keep himself alive. This includes defensive abilities, including stance back when that was a thing. And besides... losing the 10% defense on the stance meant healers had to cast more heals and do less DPS as a result and if the tank mis-calculated how much threat everybody else put out, this was a further waste to the healer's time when other people need heals dumped on them as a result. I often questioned just how effective going without stance really was, considering these points.

[ReiMakoto]

Yeah, gotta love the people who seem to think there was some kind of difference between turning stance on/off and today.

"REMEMBER THEM DAYS WHEN YOU NEEDED GRIT FOR THE FIRST UNLEASH!? I MISS THOSE DAYS!!!!"

......sigh.

Yeah, like turning Grit off after one Unleash was just awesome gameplay or something.

Meanwhile, newbie tanks who left Grit (or whatever stance) on got yelled at, scolded, mocked, etc.

I'm going to repeat that.

It was considered bad play to use your defensive stance as a tank because it did "less DPS". A whole 10% less. Not that tanks were ever anywhere close to the top of the DPS charts, and not like you didn't already have 2 other people there whose job it was to kill junk, and not like that 10% DPS really did that much of a difference in 4man content.

EDIT: And before anybody yells at me about OTs and everybody should do DPS, etc. For tanks and heals, DPS is a tertiary job. In 8-man fights (which I am not talking about here), the OT is a gimp DPS until or unless he is needed, depending on the fight or if the MT dies. Obviously. He should be doing whatever he can to do as much DPS as possible, because there's literally nothing else he can do. But in 4man groups, the tank's first job is to keep mobs on him and his second job should be to keep himself alive. This includes defensive abilities, including stance back when that was a thing. And besides... losing the 10% defense on the stance meant healers had to cast more heals and do less DPS as a result and if the tank mis-calculated how much threat everybody else put out, this was a further waste to the healer's time when other people need heals dumped on them as a result. I often questioned just how effective going without stance really was, considering these points.

My dude it was way more than a 10% difference. It was a 20% damage straight up penalty, and the stance locked you out of using certain abilities, in some cases your most powerful abilities. It was more like a 30%+ difference in dps, and trust me it was noticable as tanks could do up to 70% of the damage of a dps, potentially more in dungeons cos their aoe burst was so strong.

I dont want aggro back btw but you are seriously misrepresenting how it was

Edit: in some cases using dps stance over tank stance actually made you more tanky btw. As drk if you used dps stance you could become essentially invincible as dps stance generated way more mana so you could spam abyssal drain and blackest night infinitely making you almost unkillable, and warriors IR burst did so much damage than you could often kill the add pack before the whms holy stun resistance applied to the mobs meaning you took no damagem

[Maeka]

My dude it was way more than a 10% difference. It was a 20% damage straight up penalty, and the stance locked you out of using certain abilities, in some cases your most powerful abilities. It was more like a 30%+ difference in dps, and trust me it was noticable as tanks could do up to 70% of the damage of a dps, potentially more in dungeons cos their aoe burst was so strong.

I dont want aggro back btw but you are seriously misrepresenting how it was

Edit: in some cases using dps stance over tank stance actually made you more tanky btw. As drk if you used dps stance you could become essentially invincible as dps stance generated way more mana so you could spam abyssal drain and blackest night infinitely making you almost unkillable, and warriors IR burst did so much damage than you could often kill the add pack before the whms holy stun resistance applied to the mobs meaning you took no damagem

That just just plain terrible design then, if 2 tanks could do that and the other one couldn't.

It needed fixed.

Dropping your protective stance, and dumping most of your threat generation shouldn't make you *more* tanky and able to do more DPS at the same time. That's just stupid.